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Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

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11–20 of 149 posts

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#11
post #6

This quote is just stupid: "Where the Supreme Court is tying the hands of the federal government". Congress could, if they actually wanted to, pass a law that would regulate these lands. All the the Supreme Court did is rule that, at least so far, congress has not done so. And yet somehow this is the Supreme Court's fault.

Congress did in fact change the law to specify that those areas were regulated. In the past. After the last time people complained that it should only be surface connections they changed the law to make it more explicit that was not the intent. The Supreme Court completely ignored that.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#12

The title is kinda deceptive in that those lands weren't under federal protection until relatively recently when the EPA claimed jurisdiction over all lands which occasionally touched something that was wet.

I suppose it’s open to interpretation whether that is deceptive. It seems like it’s accurate even if there is other context. Personally I’m in favor of pretty broad federal land protections.

Same here. Especially as the alternative of waiting for damage to be done has historically meant that the water is entirely undrinkable for generations and the mining or oil company has bankrupted itself and the owners have skipped town.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#14
post #11
post #6

This quote is just stupid: "Where the Supreme Court is tying the hands of the federal government". Congress could, if they actually wanted to, pass a law that would regulate these lands. All the the Supreme Court did is rule that, at least so far, congress has not done so. And yet somehow this is the Supreme Court's fault.

Congress did in fact change the law to specify that those areas were regulated. In the past. After the last time people complained that it should only be surface connections they changed the law to make it more explicit that was not the intent. The Supreme Court completely ignored that.

> The Supreme Court completely ignored that.

Yah, sorry, but I don't believe you. The Supreme Court just doesn't do that.

Let me see some sources to support what you are saying.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#15
post #7

Watersheds aren't a local resource - they're a regional resource. This decision made no sense to begin with since, for instance, Vermont acting like a bad neighbor will cause environmental devastation in Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York - water sheds very rarely stay neatly within state boundaries. This becomes an even bigger issue when you look at the Mississippi - mining in North Dakota can cause issues in L…

> This decision made no sense to begin with since

Again, if Congress wanted to fix this, they have the authority. The decision simply said they have not yet actually done so.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it’s open to interpretation whether that is deceptive. It seems like it’s accurate even if there is other context. Personally I’m in favor of pretty broad federal land protections.

Same here. Especially as the alternative of waiting for damage to be done has historically meant that the water is entirely undrinkable for generations and the mining or oil company has bankrupted itself and the owners have skipped town.

[dead]

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#17
The recent decision didn’t so much “strike down” the protections, but rather ruled that the relevant law does not apply to the wetlands the EPA used to apply it to. There was previous ruling, which according to SCOTUS, was erroneous, and so it reversed it.

This is perfectly reasonable if you look at the original law and intent behind it, and the wetlands the federal agency no longer can claim control over. The original law was passed to protect the “navigable waters of the United States”. The agency claimed that wetlands around random creek flowing into a lake are covered, because there is a “significant nexus” between it and some navigable waters, somewhere. If you disagreed, tough luck, your best option was to appeal to the same agency, making it both judge and prosecutor in the same case, and in any case is not a practical option for a random person without deep pockets, who just want to build a house on a lake.

The ruling said that when the law says it applies to navigable waters of United States, you can apply it only to waters or wetlands that actually are navigable for purposes of interstate commerce, or are so connected to these waters to be practically indistinguishable. This is perfectly reasonable: if given wetlands are not connected to interstate navigable waters, why should they be under federal jurisdiction in the first place, especially given the plain language of the relevant law? If the state wants to protect its own waters and wetlands, it’s certainly free to do so.

Now, I believe that federal government could actually argue that the random wetlands actually can be under its jurisdiction, if they affect the water in other states, eg. through ground water flows etc. However, they will need to pass a new law to assert that, instead of leaning on old law that clearly did not mean to cover this.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#18
post #11
post #6

This quote is just stupid: "Where the Supreme Court is tying the hands of the federal government". Congress could, if they actually wanted to, pass a law that would regulate these lands. All the the Supreme Court did is rule that, at least so far, congress has not done so. And yet somehow this is the Supreme Court's fault.

Congress did in fact change the law to specify that those areas were regulated. In the past. After the last time people complained that it should only be surface connections they changed the law to make it more explicit that was not the intent. The Supreme Court completely ignored that.

It is simply not true that congress revised this law.

Re: Half of US wetlands lost federal protection. Their fate is up to the states

#20

The title is kinda deceptive in that those lands weren't under federal protection until relatively recently when the EPA claimed jurisdiction over all lands which occasionally touched something that was wet.

I suppose it’s open to interpretation whether that is deceptive. It seems like it’s accurate even if there is other context. Personally I’m in favor of pretty broad federal land protections.

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