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Docker Acquires Mutagen

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41–50 of 63 posts

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#41

Ahh cool, I look forward to Docker, Inc. destroying yet another company. Yes. I'm still bitter about Tutum. Absolutely loved Tutum. 1. https://techcrunch.com/2016/01/21/docker-acquires-unikernel-... 2. https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/21/docker-acquires-cloud-star... 3. https://thenewstack.io/docker-acquires-sdn-technology-startu... 4. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150312005148/en/Doc...

I have no idea what Tutum is (was?), but why don’t you guys build it “again”. If you miss it, there’s a clear need. Go for it.

I would imagine for myriad financial, personal and most of all technological reasons (of which you would not know, as by your own admissions, “you have no idea” what it was).

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#42
post #32

I'm the creator of Mutagen, happy to answer any questions that I can about the project, acquisition, or anything else!

You started an open source business making and publishing free software. How do you feel about going to work for a proprietary software vendor that ships lots of closed source software under restrictive licenses? Was it a change in your own views toward user freedom (and an abandonment of free software ideology) or a practical matter?

I'd point out that most of the foundational components of Docker's technology stack are FOSS (e.g. [0] [1]). Mutagen also has (and had, prior to acquisition) closed-source components and components licensed under non-OSI licenses (e.g. SSPL), so evaluate my response in that context (and also please note that these are my responses, and not representative of Docker's opinions/positions). Also, as mentioned in the acquisition FAQ [2], we don't have any plans to change the open-source licensing structure, and we're still open to contributions.

It's a delicate balance to strike, and almost more delicate to discuss. At the end of the day, an open source business is still a business, and you have to make money to eat, shelter, and continue writing code. I can certainly appreciate that there are different approaches to balancing that with open-source (e.g. consulting rather than close-sourcing), but so long as you're setting natural (non-contrived) boundaries between open-source and proprietary, then I don't think you're doing anything wrong. In fact, several companies were embedding and making money from Mutagen before I was, but that never really bothered me — that was the freedom I was affording them as users.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for user freedom and I've always strived to offer that with Mutagen (e.g. allowing people to disable components that might not fit the OSI definition of FOSS). I also have nothing but the utmost respect for the authors of open-source software; Mutagen stands on the shoulders of many different dependencies and I've always strived to ensure that we're acknowledging those in a manner that is compliant with their licensing requirements (or going above and beyond that).

In the end, it's a tough but fair question. I don't think my views have changed and I don't think there's any real incompatibility. It's a balance I'll necessarily continue to assess on a daily basis, both at Docker and in any other FOSS I write.

[0] https://github.com/docker

[1] https://github.com/moby

[2] https://www.docker.com/blog/mutagen-acquisition/#mutagen-faq

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mutagen's core users are primarily Docker users, and I honestly think they'll be much better served by the tighter integrations that we'll be able to offer now. If I didn't think that were the case, and I didn't think there were a net win (for Docker, Mutagen, and their users), then I wouldn't have joined.

Fair, I appreciate the answer. I guess I’ve just seen enough purchases where it’s just for the payday that I’m a bit cynical. Thanks again for taking the time to read and answer, wishing you the best

Thanks! I totally get it — I think a lot of time with acquisitions in general there's also a lot of good faith intentions that never manifest for whatever practical reason(s), so I can totally understand why the cynicism arises. I appreciate the positive wishes and I will do my best to convert those into positive outcomes!

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#46
post #44

Why are acquisitions legal? Is there ever a serious argument for how a company acquiring another company is net beneficial to users/customers?

I agree with you, but I think the main argument is that it lets companies provide better products and potentially cheaper prices from vertical integration. Sometimes acquisitions are only done for the human resources, and the customers of the acquirer now benefit from that person. If your competitor knows how to make the same product but cheaper, you can buy them and now your product is cheaper.

In theory it makes tons of sense - why compete when we could work together? But as long as we're requiring companies to be profitable we can't also expect them to make decisions that are net beneficial - only net profitable, and the profit motive for wiping out competitors is clear

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#47

Ahh cool, I look forward to Docker, Inc. destroying yet another company. Yes. I'm still bitter about Tutum. Absolutely loved Tutum. 1. https://techcrunch.com/2016/01/21/docker-acquires-unikernel-... 2. https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/21/docker-acquires-cloud-star... 3. https://thenewstack.io/docker-acquires-sdn-technology-startu... 4. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150312005148/en/Doc...

Did Tumtum agree to be purchased, or are you suggesting this was some kind of hostile takeover?

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#48
post #44

Why are acquisitions legal? Is there ever a serious argument for how a company acquiring another company is net beneficial to users/customers?

I agree with you, but I think the main argument is that it lets companies provide better products and potentially cheaper prices from vertical integration. Sometimes acquisitions are only done for the human resources, and the customers of the acquirer now benefit from that person. If your competitor knows how to make the same product but cheaper, you can buy them and now your product is cheaper. In theory it makes to…

This is also ignoring the kinda simple case of buying for IP - if you're a toy maker and you want to sell toys for movies, you can do that for free if you also own the movie and avoid licensing fees. Or maybe you need some specific patent and a competitor won't license it to you as long as they're in business because then you legally have to work at a disadvantage - IP is kinda by definition meant to hurt consumers for a period as a reward for the holder, so removing that would make the products better

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Oh no, they're curious about his salary. Who could think to ask such a heinous question?

It's pretty uncommon to post one's salary on a public forum like this one, let alone to answer a random outburst question in a thread about a company acquisition.

Re: Docker Acquires Mutagen

#50
post #44

Why are acquisitions legal? Is there ever a serious argument for how a company acquiring another company is net beneficial to users/customers?

> Why are acquisitions legal?

It'd take at least semester of public policy, a semester of economics, a semester of history, and a semester of legal studies to adequately answer that.

The shorter answer is that nonnatutal persons and natural persons have the same rights to do what they want with their property, barring very specific exemptions. One of those exemptions is monopolies, but (and add this to the list of shit Ronald fucking Reagan and the university of chicago screwed up, too) in the 1980s US anti-monopoly enforcement switched from focusing on ensuring a competitive marketplace to focusing on ensuring economic efficiency and consumer welfare, so it became much much much easier to merge and acquire competitors.

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