Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

zedshaw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 61 posts

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#31

Post by tptacek »

jm4 wrote: post #9
tptacek wrote: post #5

I did not read DHH's post and think he was suggesting Mongrel was leaking. I see that DHH screwed up and said Mongrel (which they were using in production, just not on Basecamp) when he should have said FCGI. But Zed has taken an entire DHH post, zoomed in on one irrelevant error, and attempted to twist the entire discussion around it. Let's settle it now: * Mongrel wasn't leaking. * DHH clearly appears to have missp…

True, it could have been an honest mistake. However, like I said in my comment above DHH starts off the post wondering aloud about Zed's state of mind and whether he needs help. Even if the Mongrel thing was a legitimate error the opening paragraph is an obvious cheap shot. Regardless of whether or not Zed just has an axe to grind here that kind of nonsense makes DHH look like a tool and a half if you ask me.

You are missing my point.

Zed just wrote a whole blog post about how DHH's "mythbusting" post was wrong.

As evidence, he cited a factual error in DHH's post that was not relevant to DHH's argument.

Logic seems to show how Zed was wrong. Innuendo and personality drama is all that implied DHH was wrong.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#32

Post by tptacek »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #5

I did not read DHH's post and think he was suggesting Mongrel was leaking. I see that DHH screwed up and said Mongrel (which they were using in production, just not on Basecamp) when he should have said FCGI. But Zed has taken an entire DHH post, zoomed in on one irrelevant error, and attempted to twist the entire discussion around it. Let's settle it now: * Mongrel wasn't leaking. * DHH clearly appears to have missp…

Zed may very well be paranoid, hyper-aggressive and caustic. However, you can be paranoid and on to something. The subtle forms of aggression that Zed accuses the Rails core of perpetuating are difficult to provide concrete examples for, and it seems as though he has done just in this case.. we will see how it plays out. It impacts me as a developer because this potentially diminishes DHH's credibility in my eyes, an…

Aaron, you weren't going to use Rails anyways; you develop on a competing web stack. Stepping into the middle of a DHH vs. Zed Shaw rant is not good evangelism.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#33

Post by tptacek »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #10
tptacek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be more specific about why Zed's post is "damning".

He accuses DHH of lying, and refers to an earlier (AFAIK uncontested) recording of the conversation to demonstrate his point. Edit: I agree 100% with jm4's elaboration down below.

You're using the word "lying" where "mistaken" would do just as well. To import the Wikipedia rule: (A)ssume (G)ood (F)aith.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#34

Post by kschrader »

rbanffy wrote: post #29

You know what I love the most about Django? It's as easy to use as Rails, plus has no such toxic people hanging around it.

I was a Rails user for 3 years and I looked at Django seriously before settling on Merb for my current project. I wouldn't say that it's as easy to use or as powerful as Rails, but either way it seems like we should be moving beyond silly arguments like this by now and have started building the next generation of frameworks that take the good pieces from all of the current generation and build upon them.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#35

Post by dmh2000 »

"To have everyone in your world using your software, but not offering you any jobs greater than a system administrator position is tough."

this kind of refutes the idea that you can make a good living by writing an open source package and selling support for it.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#36

Post by 100k »

rcoder wrote: post #7

"Mom, DHH called me a stupid-head!" "Did not!" "Did so!" ... Etc., etc. Honestly, neither of these guys need us feeding their egos. They've contributed some decent infrastructure for web hacking, but if they want to have a he-said/she-said argument, that's their business. I personally don't want to waste any more time on their little ego-fest. Let's turn this into a thread about Passenger, instead, since both of them…

As far as I know, the only reason Passenger disables mod_rewrite is because if they didn't the .htaccess file that ships with Rails would cause every request to use CGI instead of Passenger. See here for details: http://www.modrails.com/documentation/Users%20guide.html#con...

We are using Passenger + mod_rewrite where I work with no problems.

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#37

Post by aaronblohowiak »

tptacek wrote: post #32
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zed may very well be paranoid, hyper-aggressive and caustic. However, you can be paranoid and on to something. The subtle forms of aggression that Zed accuses the Rails core of perpetuating are difficult to provide concrete examples for, and it seems as though he has done just in this case.. we will see how it plays out. It impacts me as a developer because this potentially diminishes DHH's credibility in my eyes, an…

Aaron, you weren't going to use Rails anyways; you develop on a competing web stack. Stepping into the middle of a DHH vs. Zed Shaw rant is not good evangelism.

[citation needed]

I've been on rails for 3 years now. http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/7008-aaron-blohowiak

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#38

Post by aaronblohowiak »

tptacek wrote: post #33
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He accuses DHH of lying, and refers to an earlier (AFAIK uncontested) recording of the conversation to demonstrate his point. Edit: I agree 100% with jm4's elaboration down below.

You're using the word "lying" where "mistaken" would do just as well. To import the Wikipedia rule: (A)ssume (G)ood (F)aith.

That's a good point. Which is why I said that Zed accuses him of lying, and why I said that it is potentially damning, and refrained from making a judgment myself.. and why I look forward to the rebuttal.

Edit: please see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=365020

Re: Zed Shaw responds to DHH's Ruby Myths

#40

Post by petercooper »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #5

I did not read DHH's post and think he was suggesting Mongrel was leaking. I see that DHH screwed up and said Mongrel (which they were using in production, just not on Basecamp) when he should have said FCGI. But Zed has taken an entire DHH post, zoomed in on one irrelevant error, and attempted to twist the entire discussion around it. Let's settle it now: * Mongrel wasn't leaking. * DHH clearly appears to have missp…

Zed may very well be paranoid, hyper-aggressive and caustic. However, you can be paranoid and on to something. The subtle forms of aggression that Zed accuses the Rails core of perpetuating are difficult to provide concrete examples for, and it seems as though he has done just in this case.. we will see how it plays out. It impacts me as a developer because this potentially diminishes DHH's credibility in my eyes, an…

It impacts me as a developer because this potentially diminishes DHH's credibility in my eyes, and as the Rails BDFL, this has the potential to impact how I approach the platform I use to make a living.

Don't let it.

Put it this way, I'm definitely no unconditional member of the DHH fan club, but his contributions to the Ruby world are streets ahead of Zed's. Whether you think Zed is great or not, none of that detracts from what DHH has done. DHH is pretty direct and a "good guy" (usually - Rails logo idiocy overlooked). DHH has not, in my experience, tended to be passive aggressive - though there are many in the Ruby and Rails pantheon who are.

I concur with tptacek's opinion above - all of his posts in this thread are on the money. On ZS's part, as interesting and amusing as these cries are, he's crying in a showman-esque way - just sit back and enjoy the show. (Don't believe me? Try: The one thing that pissed me off about the Mongrel project was how it destroyed my career path. -- Destroyed his career path? It was a semi-popular project for a minor language - get a grip.)

My qualifications to make these statements? Not as strong as those for some others, but I've been a Rails coder since 2004 and run the largest Ruby blog so I believe I've seen a lot of what's gone on.

Post reply on HN