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TSA: Fail

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Re: TSA: Fail

#21

Post by epochwolf »

mcantelon wrote: post #8
tnuc wrote: post #3

I disagree, he missed a vital point. TSA: Success The worlds most expensive security theater. Making you feel safer for your troubles.

>The worlds most expensive security theater. Making you feel safer for your troubles. And humiliating you so you're more likely to accept whatever the federal government doles out in the future. Psychological conditioning.

Most of school is psychological conditioning. This would be a wonderful conspiracy theory if the government was a bit more efficient about it. :)

Re: TSA: Fail

#22

Post by gareim »

verelo wrote: post #16
Darkstar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but there's one fatal flaw in your logic. The problem is that we're NOT the TSA's customers. The TSA answers only to the Department of Homeland Security, which answers to nobody. See, the TSA is meant to protect us but cannot be held accountable by the people it protects. If they depended on us for their survival (like they claim we depend on them for ours) then you'd see them become much friendlier and much more…

Sorry, the TSA disagrees with you. Here is the link to their "Customer service" page http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm

Having a customer service page is not synonymous with being accountable. The thing is, whether or not we are satisfied with them, we still have to deal with them until the government changes it. So they aren't held directly accountable. Instead, we have to effect change in the government in a way that will then effect change in the TSA. That extra layer makes things much harder.

Re: TSA: Fail

#23

Post by ot »

I don't really buy the argument "TSA has never [...] foiled a terrorist plot or stopped an attack on an airliner.": it could be argued that the TSA measures act as an effective deterrent.

A stronger argument could be to show that in none of the countries that do not adopt TSA-like measures there have been any terrorist attempts, let alone successful.

How easy would it be to board in, say, Mexico or Canada, and hijack the flight to the US?

EDIT: looking at the comments (and the downvotes) I have the feeling that I wasn't clear. I agree with the article pretty much on everything, I'm just trying to say that where there are no body scanners deployed, for example in Europe, there have been no terrorist attacks, and I think that this is a stronger argument than "the TSA hasn't prevented any attack".

Re: TSA: Fail

#24

Post by ericdykstra »

_ouxp wrote: post #18
verelo wrote: post #9

As someone who travels regularly and is not an American, I've had nothing but frustrations generated by the "TSA". Initially it caused me to unfairly assume all Americans are like TSA agents (i know this isn't true, but i guess its just my human bias). A few things that frustrate me: - They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent. You are the face of th…

There are actually two groups you don't like: the ones who greet you when you enter the USA are Customs & Border Protection agents. They have a lot of power. The TSA employees are the folks in blue shirts who screen you &/ frisk you once you're inside the US & trying to fly. As an always-clean-shaven-when-flying US citizen, I have never had the displeasure of being treated poorly by CBP, though I know (and regret) it…

I've been harassed for 15 minutes straight by CBP as a clean, white, male US citizen. I can't imagine what it's like for people who don't fit that description.

Re: TSA: Fail

#25

Post by afterburner »

"I am stunned, quite frankly, that the same people who fought against the Patriot Act because it was invasive and violated privacy rights have not howled about this invasion of personal privacy rights."

Say what? I see the same people railing against both, all the time.

Re: TSA: Fail

#26

Post by jbooth »

tptacek wrote: post #11

It's funny to try to predict what's going to spark the inevitable huge flame war on a thread like this, given that there isn't a soul on HN that thinks the TSA is a good thing. (I didn't flag this article; it's pretty great.)

DON'T YOU DARE SAY THAT ABOUT RON PAUL

Re: TSA: Fail

#27

Post by jeremyarussell »

verelo wrote: post #9

As someone who travels regularly and is not an American, I've had nothing but frustrations generated by the "TSA". Initially it caused me to unfairly assume all Americans are like TSA agents (i know this isn't true, but i guess its just my human bias). A few things that frustrate me: - They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent. You are the face of th…

I've never flown before, except my grandfather has his own plane, but that's way different i'm sure. I feel bad as an American to know that they are being ridiculously rude and invading privacy like that. (Also I get what you mean about the finger printing.)

Re: TSA: Fail

#28

Post by verelo »

gareim wrote: post #22
verelo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, the TSA disagrees with you. Here is the link to their "Customer service" page http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm

Having a customer service page is not synonymous with being accountable. The thing is, whether or not we are satisfied with them, we still have to deal with them until the government changes it. So they aren't held directly accountable. Instead, we have to effect change in the government in a way that will then effect change in the TSA. That extra layer makes things much harder.

You know, i totally agree...i just ask myself "would it hurt if they were friendly" and i don't see why not. They are citizen facing, treat others as you would like to be treated. It just feels like common sense to me.

Re: TSA: Fail

#29

Post by tikhonj »

ot wrote: post #23

I don't really buy the argument "TSA has never [...] foiled a terrorist plot or stopped an attack on an airliner.": it could be argued that the TSA measures act as an effective deterrent. A stronger argument could be to show that in none of the countries that do not adopt TSA-like measures there have been any terrorist attempts, let alone successful. How easy would it be to board in, say, Mexico or Canada, and hijack…

Yes, it could be argued. But I've never seen it argued with convincing data, and for something so expensive and invasive, convincing data is the least I expect.

Re: TSA: Fail

#30

Post by dawson »

verelo wrote: post #9

As someone who travels regularly and is not an American, I've had nothing but frustrations generated by the "TSA". Initially it caused me to unfairly assume all Americans are like TSA agents (i know this isn't true, but i guess its just my human bias). A few things that frustrate me: - They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent. You are the face of th…

Just to balance things, I just returned (literally an hour ago) from SF, having flown in to SF for a week, then to Seattle and back to SF before flying back to the UK, and the TSA were all very welcoming, greeted me and made conversations, jokes and all engaged in a very pleasant manner. I was very impressed!
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