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Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

woodfromeden.substack.com

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Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#71
post #50

The title: > Happiness is a reward from our ancestors Followed by the subtitle: > Long-term happiness only comes to those who emulate their successful ancestors Did anyone else get a severe case of mental whiplash from that? I pretty strongly agree with the title in many ways (the now is built on the shoulders of the past), but holy cow I do not agree with that subtitle at all . The rest of this reads like a pile of…

>Happiness is a reward from our ancestors >Long-term happiness only comes to those who emulate their successful ancestors

The title made sense to me in terms of the subtitle when I read it. Our ancestors figured out how to survive and encoded it into happiness and passed it on as a gift. It's a sort of embedded encoding they've figured out and left for us in how to survive.

Conversely I've begun thinking depression is a mammalian adaptation to weed out ineffective strategies more quickly.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet other times the lack of that word denotes a different perspective on that subject. Short term or long term happiness isn’t differentiated in the untied states. I don’t think of happiness in terms of long or short term. Just as a temporary state that hopefully last a long time. Think of all the words we use to express love in English. In Chinese a word technically exists for love but it’s not used between people m…

Y'all are saying that because Americans don't have a single term for "long term happiness" and a separate term for "short term happiness," then that creates some kind of blindspot for Americans. We understand how to put multiple terms together to express nuanced ideas. > In Chinese a word technically exists for love but it’s not used between people more for things but even then it’s not the same word. This is a perfe…

> We understand how to put multiple terms together to express nuanced ideas.

That's not the same as having a single word that embodies a specific concept, that helps/shorten the expression/sharing of it.

If you don't have this single concept that stands for itself, and/or that you don't know the word, as long as you can't name it, it's hard if not impossible to see it. That's why we give a name to things or people we find/meet.

See shades of white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_white), plural forms, different depending on the language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural#Use_in_systems_of_gramm...), love (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love) if only in Greek where it has at least 6 very distinct ones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love).

But, also, that knack for ambiguity and second and third order meaning in apparently detached sentences in some languages, it has its own charms.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#73

https://youtu.be/4q1dgn_C0AU “The surprising science of happiness”, from Dan Gilbert, is one of the best TED talks of all time (over 4M views). In his amazing & funny 20’ presentation, he explains how our brains are wired and how it relates to happiness. The article reminded me of this great content

I found that video incredibly unconvincing. It just feels like pseudoscience telling people what they want to hear, and the data was underwhelming (assuming it's not flawed to begin with). I think a more plausible explanation is that people just lie to themselves to believe whatever they want. These people are only "happier" until they're forced to confront a reality that contradicts their beliefs. In other words it'…

Measuring happiness by asking people to rate if from 1-10 seems pretty questionable.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#74

I sincerely hope that nobody assumes that because this is on the top of HN that this isn't batshit crazy garbage. HN is an echo chamber that can turn a logical mind into one that starts assuming every premise upvoted on here is acceptable. Don't fall into that trap.

Can you expand on why you think this is a batshit crazy garbage?

Evolutionary psychology is psuedoscience.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that video incredibly unconvincing. It just feels like pseudoscience telling people what they want to hear, and the data was underwhelming (assuming it's not flawed to begin with). I think a more plausible explanation is that people just lie to themselves to believe whatever they want. These people are only "happier" until they're forced to confront a reality that contradicts their beliefs. In other words it'…

Measuring happiness by asking people to rate if from 1-10 seems pretty questionable.

Do you have a better idea? (Happiness is a fully subjective thing, so subjective measures only, please).

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#76
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that video incredibly unconvincing. It just feels like pseudoscience telling people what they want to hear, and the data was underwhelming (assuming it's not flawed to begin with). I think a more plausible explanation is that people just lie to themselves to believe whatever they want. These people are only "happier" until they're forced to confront a reality that contradicts their beliefs. In other words it'…

You may be interested in this newer paper, reconciling the work of Killingsworth and Kahneman & Deaton. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2208661120

I work in this area and I really dislike it when happiness is plotted against income only on a log scale, as is done here. The log scale effectively conceals the flattening-out of the relationship, which is the thing that shows you how progressive taxation + redistribution make the average person better off.

Whether it's a straight line up to $75K followed by a flat line from there on, or a curved (log) relationship all the way up, seems to me to make rather little difference.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#77
> If, for example, you would build a house, you might not feel confident that the roof will resist rain and snow. The good way to handle such fears is to learn about state-of-the-art roof construction. The bad way to handle such fears is to take a mindfulness class where you learn how to feel confidence in the face of the unknown.

To me, this "good way" isn't a way to build confidence.

If you dig the roof building subject, you will probably stumble upon different good building solutions. Worst, you could find out the subject is controversial.

In the first case, you need confidence to pick a solution.

In the second case, you need even more confidence to pick a solution.

To me, confidence builds up when you face situations like this, pick a solution amongst all these options even though it might not be optimal or even though it's disputed, and either get rewarded with a positive outcome or with a lesson clear enough that you know it will help you do better next time.

To generalize further, to me confidence builds up when you are satisfied about the outcome you got when you battled challenges that matter to you, or satisfied about your behavior during the battle itself.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#78
I see that lot of people critize this a lot, but after reading the earlier post linked in the begining of it, it strongly reminds me of Carl Jung's individuation.

A lifelong process that involves an individual becoming whole by integrating various aspects of their personality and becoming their true authentic self.

Jung spoke about humanity suffering from neurosis, if they basically deep down feel that their life is meaningless. Oversimplified example is - if parents want a kid to be a doctor, and the kid succeeds at that, but is then severly unhappy, because he supressed parts of himself to do that.

Individuation is life long process, where the person is trying to put all the parts of themselves into light, even the parts they for example don't like about themselves, like being lazy, vain, etc. (The Shadow). And then live according to that authentic self.

Jungs's theory has nothing to do with evolutionary psychology or the idea that most people shoud be farmers like our ancestors or something. But it is similar in the way, that there is effort to uncover what makes someone happy - and that idea the depression is a message to the person that they are not on the right track, not one aligned with their authentic self. Depression is then considered a tool, a valuable one, and no mistake of brain chemistry or something.

I think there is something about this - that depression is lack of meaning. I also heard that in the startup context - a burnout is a state where you care about something, but come to subconscious realization that you are powerless to change it. It is basically another way a meaninglessness manifests. Because if you come to believe you can't influnce something, why would you keep working on it right? Your body will refuse that.

What the author of the article did is Jung's ideation, when she got married, moved to countryside and all that. Her explanation was evolutionary psychology and thinking it has somthing to do with her genetic ancestors, but that's just one explanation. In essence, she only admitted to herself, what she is really like deep down and then acted upon it. Ancestors or not, she got closer to her authentic self - instead of letting herself be programmed by the society. For somebody else though, the countryside life and kids might NOT be the right answer for them. Everybody is different, hence why it's called Individuation - seperating yourself, individualizing into your own authentic self.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#79

> In Swedish... someone happy in the moment is called glad... Someone happy in the longer-term is called lycklig. And we are not just some millions of weirdos in the northernmost of Europe. The Germans are froh when they are happy in the short term and glücklich when they are happy in the long term... Just because you don't have a dedicated word for something, doesn't mean that it is a foreign concept. In Arabic and…

Language determines how one thinks. People from different cultures count differently for example, and that affect how people do math. "two-dozen is two times a dozen" is more intuitive than "twenty four is two times twelve". To me twenty four and twelve are just two words, but two-dozen is clearly double twelve. Another example is the words brothers and sisters, where being older and younger less emphasized. In many asian cultures, where age is considered a prestige (or is it not?), there is a clear distinction between older and younger children.

Re: Happiness is a reward from our ancestors

#80
post #79

> In Swedish... someone happy in the moment is called glad... Someone happy in the longer-term is called lycklig. And we are not just some millions of weirdos in the northernmost of Europe. The Germans are froh when they are happy in the short term and glücklich when they are happy in the long term... Just because you don't have a dedicated word for something, doesn't mean that it is a foreign concept. In Arabic and…

Language determines how one thinks. People from different cultures count differently for example, and that affect how people do math. "two-dozen is two times a dozen" is more intuitive than "twenty four is two times twelve". To me twenty four and twelve are just two words, but two-dozen is clearly double twelve. Another example is the words brothers and sisters, where being older and younger less emphasized. In many…

> Language determines how one thinks.

This is called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (though it's mostly Whorf's), and it's been largely debunked. Language may have some limited influence of perception of colours and innate direction, but probably not much more than that.

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