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JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

theregister.com

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Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#241

Post by mandmandam »

roflyear wrote: post #236
mandmandam wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero , we need to adjust our standards a bit. If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

You realize that isn't how it works, right? It shouldn't be OK to make wild claims without evidence that need to be backed up. It's the other way: you need good evidence to back up wild claims.

What "wild claim" do you have in mind?

The article seemed pretty clear about where evidence was lacking; and is more densely packed with links than >95% of mainstream news articles.

Even if one were to completely dismiss everything fta that was even slightly suspect, you'd still have more insight into why JP Morgan might intentionally delete tens of millions of emails.

Forty-seven million emails. 47,000,000.

"Accidentally". Even if you could believe this - wow - even if you could take that at face value, the fine worth ~45 minutes or so of profit is still preposterous.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#242

Post by mandmandam »

roflyear wrote: post #237
mandmandam wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the entire, very long article, there are only three references to Jewishness - twice saying that people had Jewish immigrant parents, and once in reference to the makeup of a particular mob which also references their Italian members, putting the lie to your claim that other ethnic backgrounds are not mentioned. Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear t…

Why mention it at all?

[flagged]

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#243

Post by latency-guy2 »

sensanaty wrote: post #118
latency-guy2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do establish in what way these fines are at all reasonable or appropriate. I don't think you know to what level this data loss is if you're being this reactionary.

> reasonable or appropriate That's the point, they shouldn't be "reasonable" nor "appropriate" for an entity as large and with as many resources as JPM. Surely with the 300k employees they have and the literal infinite well of money they have, there's a few competent individuals working there to prevent these sort of "mistakes" from happening, and if not then they should either find some competent people, or cease to…

So, you want the fine to be unreasonable, and inappropriate? That's your stance? Why should anyone care for your opinion, your ideas, or your morals?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#244

Post by danuker »

gmd63 wrote: post #205
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $4M is a slap on the wrist, but if there's evidence that it was done on purpose, and the deleted data is evidence for a bigger case, they'd be in much bigger trouble still. But, innocent until proven guilty; if there's no indication of any missing evidence, it'll stay at the failure to retain data fine.

I think corporations of "too big to fail" stature should have different legal protections than what are offered to humans. Innocent until proven guilty is not quite fair to apply to corporations that get bailed out by taxpayers when the policemen are driving bicycles trying to enforce the speed limit on a highway full of McLarens. When a company has positioned itself to be a critical organ of society, it should be re…

I am of the position that no company should be allowed to become too big to fail. Or, if one does, it should be nationalized.

If its service is crucial and no other company can replace it, then there is a high risk that it makes use of its position by charging an arm and a leg for essential services.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#245

Post by danuker »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191
idiot900 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who works in the SEC? Former bank/finance employees. Where will these employees go work if they decide to leave the SEC?

> Who works in the SEC? Former bank/finance employees Source? There is a revolving door, but it’s as much between industry and the SEC as it is between it and the rest of the public sector.

https://www.sec.gov/about/commissioners

Well, honestly I am surprised at how extensive the commissioners' background is in public service and/or education.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#246

Post by andsoitis »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #238
andsoitis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even…

She specified their ethnicities and countries of origin to describe their relation to the "SuperMob," which was apparently "composed mainly of Jewish and Italian mobsters and businessmen who rose to power thanks to the corruption within the city of Chicago before expanding to other areas of the country, particularly the West Coast." By only denouncing this Dangerous Anti-Semitism and ignoring the equally deplorable A…

Actually, she did not specify the ethnicities of any specific person other than the Jews.

If you read the article, you'll notice "Italian" occurring once, but not in relation to a specific person...

However, in the opening paragraphs of the "SuperMob" they're sure to mention which specific individuals are Jewish:

Crown Prince of the “Super Mob”

Henry Krinsky was born in 1896 in the city of Chicago. His father, a Jewish immigrant from Lithuania, worked as a sweatshop foreman and changed the family name to Crown when Henry was a child. After dropping out of school in the 8th grade, Crown started a steel business with his older brother, Sol Crown, in 1915, creating S.R. Crown & Company. A few years later, in 1919, another brother, Irving Crown, joined the company, which became Material Service Corporation (MSC), a sand, gravel, lime and coal business that was prominent in Chicago’s construction industry.

Henry Crown developed an early relationship with Jake Arvey, a notorious political fixer for the Democrats in Chicago who, like Crown, was the son of poor Jewish immigrants. Arvey had deep ties to the Chicago mob, including the circles around notorious gangster Al Capone

Now, I know also that you're saying I'm being overly sensitive, but I'm trying to point out (when I was asked to disprove the article) that these are signals that I think the article is not to be trusted on face value.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#247

Post by danuker »

chollida1 wrote: post #83
danuker wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC is not in the justice business. It is a puppet of the banks themselves. A $4M fine is NOTHING for a company netting $12.62B a QUARTER.

> It is a puppet of the banks themselves. This is ofcourse false. But given how little effort you made on this comment i assume nothing will change your mind:( https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/business/banks-fined-text... https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-174 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-206

The first two links describe the same event, if I can tell correctly.

A lot of people fail to realize how crucial financial institutions are for society. Everything we do has national currency as a middleman, and national currency is more under private control than under public.

$125M is a fee for stealing as much as you wish, since you have the power to print money. Need more assets? Just give out credit more loosely for a while. Then "accidentally" delete the records of what money went where, then get bailed out.

Commercial banks get to create and spend currency before its impact hits the wider market through inflation. In addition, the rate of creation has to continuously surpass debt repayment, otherwise there is a liquidity crisis. They have an immense privilege, and as such, should be held to much higher standards.

"Give me control over a nation's currency, and I care not who makes its laws."

If the violation of even the standards we have results in less than a month's worth of PROFIT for several years of wrongdoing, how are these rules or outcomes fair?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#248

Post by roflyear »

mandmandam wrote: post #241
roflyear wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that isn't how it works, right? It shouldn't be OK to make wild claims without evidence that need to be backed up. It's the other way: you need good evidence to back up wild claims.

What "wild claim" do you have in mind? The article seemed pretty clear about where evidence was lacking; and is more densely packed with links than >95% of mainstream news articles. Even if one were to completely dismiss everything fta that was even slightly suspect, you'd still have more insight into why JP Morgan might intentionally delete tens of millions of emails. Forty-seven million emails. 47,000,000. "Acciden…

The wild claim from several links in this discussion seem to be some kind of jewish mobster financial conspiracy.

How many emails do you think JPM receives a year?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#249

Post by sensanaty »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #243
sensanaty wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reasonable or appropriate That's the point, they shouldn't be "reasonable" nor "appropriate" for an entity as large and with as many resources as JPM. Surely with the 300k employees they have and the literal infinite well of money they have, there's a few competent individuals working there to prevent these sort of "mistakes" from happening, and if not then they should either find some competent people, or cease to…

So, you want the fine to be unreasonable, and inappropriate? That's your stance? Why should anyone care for your opinion, your ideas, or your morals?

When it comes to companies like JPM that blatantly disregard the law constantly and are never given more than tiny little taps on the wrist, yes? If it were up to me we'd start rounding up every C-Suite we could, let's see how much longer they'll keep trying to get away with things like this after that.

Tell me, what exactly is reasonable or appropriate or fair about such a pittance of a fine for such blatant corruption? We're not talking about some random mom & pop shop, we're talking about the largest fucking bank in the States and arguably the entire world here. Someone in the thread already did some rough back-of-the-napkin math, this 4 million is a bit less than 20 minutes of income for them, in what universe is that a reasonable fine?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#250

Post by sensanaty »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #200
jbverschoor wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How… “inconvenient“

> How… “inconvenient“ For JPMorgan, sure. That missing evidence gets interpreted adversely against JPMorgan, which means those cases are basically won. The question is how many more will arise in the coming months, perhaps years, that find reasonable claim to damages arising out of evidence the defendant has conceded it can’t bring to its defense.

Will the interpretations of the missing evidence be worse or better for them, though? Seeing as it's JPM, it's very possible that whatever evidence was lost (lol) would be a lot more damaging than whatever the prosecutors will come up with.
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