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JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

theregister.com

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Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#231

Post by technion »

jncfhnb wrote: post #227
wongarsu wrote: post #113

So the story is basically: 1. data that has to be retained for legal reasons can't be deleted by normal deletion processes 2. data that should be deleted didn't delete properly 3. to fix (2) they manually ran delete requests for times up to about the current date (back in 2018), relying on (1) to protect data 4. turns out somebody forgot to configure (1) for emails send to domains belonging to Chase (at that point th…

I’m not convinced companies actually keep these records so much as they retain access to inbox and outbox data And call that good enough. I think in many environments if you delete an email from your outbox it would become largely irrecoverable. I’m curious if any IT folks can comment on what they have seen? Do you actually have log records of all messages? Or do you have something like a snapshot of all accounts at…

Office 365 offers message retention - our standard configuration will see it set with a seven year period. So you can delete from the outfox, and it goes to deleted items. If you delete from there it disappears from view, but any admin exporting your mailbox will include it for seven years.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#232

Post by salawat »

pessimizer wrote: post #223
meepmorp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of work experience do you think the applicants for the jobs at the SEC ought to have? If you need people people with experience in banking and finance, especially the legal and regulatory/compliance areas, where would you do your recruiting?

Do you think that only experienced murderers should adjudicate murder cases? Should all cops be expected to have extensive criminal experience, and should we expect them to return to crime after they retire from the police?

This. If anything, insider experience tends to dull willingness to enforce because "it's how everyone does it". As a regulator, the public in a real way depends on you to be the lever that looks at how everyone does it, and be willing to say "not good enough"

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#233

Post by kccqzy »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #203
wongarsu wrote: post #113

So the story is basically: 1. data that has to be retained for legal reasons can't be deleted by normal deletion processes 2. data that should be deleted didn't delete properly 3. to fix (2) they manually ran delete requests for times up to about the current date (back in 2018), relying on (1) to protect data 4. turns out somebody forgot to configure (1) for emails send to domains belonging to Chase (at that point th…

It seems like laws about how data gets handled are pretty much not real laws, due to there being almost no enforcement. So, most companies handle their data in a fairly careless way It might be illogical for companies to invest more into their IT infrastructure if there isn't a good reason to do so. I mean, even massive customer data leaks go basically unpunished, so how do you justify the mitigation expenses at the…

> due to there being almost no enforcement

It turns out investigation and enforcement is disproportionately doled out to large corporations. Companies like Alphabet and Meta have multiple teams to make sure they are handling data correctly and yet there could still be things that fall through the cracks.

This regulatory attention on large companies is advantageous to startups though; until a startup gets big nobody really cares about its data handling compliance.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#234

Post by salawat »

chollida1 wrote: post #228
pessimizer wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that only experienced murderers should adjudicate murder cases? Should all cops be expected to have extensive criminal experience, and should we expect them to return to crime after they retire from the police?

What you wrote is so far away from a good faith argument that it’s pretty hard to see it as anything other than low effort trolling.

They are actually making a very powerful point. A regulator is expected to at some point operate from an "external to industry" perspective. Much like a test framework or testing harness must exist out_of_band of the system under test.

A regulator that regularly pulls exclusively from industry insiders should raise eyebrows. Now whether the SEC actually pulls the majority of hires from industry insiders, that's another question I can't readily answer. Don't have those figures.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#235

Post by salawat »

KMnO4 wrote: post #63
DrBazza wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is actually common place in the industry. Can we make more profit than the fine for market abuse?

Reminds me of the infamous Fight Club scene > Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

...That's actually textbook business/enterprise risk management calculation believe it or not. Not a facsimile or artistic exaggeration.

If you want to know why so much shady crap happens, part and parcel of that is when we fo catch malicious behavior, the fines are so small as to be cost of doing business.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#236

Post by roflyear »

mandmandam wrote: post #112
andsoitis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/04/investigative-series/cr... Now there's a reliable source!

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero , we need to adjust our standards a bit. If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

You realize that isn't how it works, right? It shouldn't be OK to make wild claims without evidence that need to be backed up. It's the other way: you need good evidence to back up wild claims.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#237

Post by roflyear »

mandmandam wrote: post #140
andsoitis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even…

In the entire, very long article, there are only three references to Jewishness - twice saying that people had Jewish immigrant parents, and once in reference to the makeup of a particular mob which also references their Italian members, putting the lie to your claim that other ethnic backgrounds are not mentioned. Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear t…

Why mention it at all?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#238

Post by JPws_Prntr_Fngr »

andsoitis wrote: post #134
mandmandam wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero , we need to adjust our standards a bit. If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even…

She specified their ethnicities and countries of origin to describe their relation to the "SuperMob," which was apparently "composed mainly of Jewish and Italian mobsters and businessmen who rose to power thanks to the corruption within the city of Chicago before expanding to other areas of the country, particularly the West Coast."

By only denouncing this Dangerous Anti-Semitism and ignoring the equally deplorable Anti-Italianism, you've outed yourself as an Anti-Italian Romanophobe whose opinions may be summarily dismissed. Checkmate.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#239

Post by [deleted] »

lozenge wrote: post #224
Supermancho wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably they would have gone to some low-level tech and told him something to the effect of "We are looking for a new team lead, you might be a good fit. Not a chance. NOTHING gets done at JPMorgan without a mountain-load of direction and a grip of meetings. This would have had to wipe out both the data and records of that direction. Because the layers of tape are so thick you can't travel floor to floor without…

"JPMorgan hit with $200 million in fines for letting employees use WhatsApp to evade regulators' reach between 2018 and 2020" How did the bureaucracy let this happen if it's as big and bureaucratic as you claim? And there's other examples too.

[deleted]

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#240

Post by Supermancho »

lozenge wrote: post #224
Supermancho wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably they would have gone to some low-level tech and told him something to the effect of "We are looking for a new team lead, you might be a good fit. Not a chance. NOTHING gets done at JPMorgan without a mountain-load of direction and a grip of meetings. This would have had to wipe out both the data and records of that direction. Because the layers of tape are so thick you can't travel floor to floor without…

"JPMorgan hit with $200 million in fines for letting employees use WhatsApp to evade regulators' reach between 2018 and 2020" How did the bureaucracy let this happen if it's as big and bureaucratic as you claim? And there's other examples too.

Some executives going on WhatsApp to collude is going to be possible to this day, as long as the highest ranked member(s) ok it and there's no paper trail. It's not much different from after-work drinks, but they left records and got caught. shrug That's a different kind of corruption than what I was addressing, which does not involve technical operation.

Not to brag, but I skirted company policies at JPMC. I had been tasked with writing a solution for a specific process that integrated a freeform type of data. I didn't use customer data or even sensitive company information, but did cobble something together that worked as a prototype over 6 months, in addition to my application workload. Due to some unannounced hardware refresh, my laptop was to be wiped. I decided to mail a zipfile of the custom javascript code (all open source or hand-written), to myself. There was a proper application (OneDrive) to normally store this kind of data, but it wasn't on my machine...which was probably part of the reason some laptops were being nuked. So, against, company policy I "mishandled source code" and got a 2-week-long wrist-slap over it. Was this "letting employees use email to evade company policies", or is it simply something that happens because there's no practical way to prevent me from doing it and still maintain standard business operation? It's important to read between the lines sometimes.

Anything that requires participation of lower level employees, is different because they have to have explicit instructions and action plans to do anything...according to multiple policies and processes. If someone walked in and said "this is the SQL to use to delete this data for this JIRA ticket", it would be written down in a Confluence, JIRA, email, git, for starters. You would also have to have to account for the rollback as well, or it doesn't play.

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