Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks • Hacker News Board

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#881

Post by KptMarchewa » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:51 PM UTC

zmgsabst wrote: post #676

cies wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So biology says tomato is a fruit. In the kitchen we consider it a vegetable. Could the same be true for the whole gender discussion? That biology gets side-stepped in the name of common sense (that does not answer questions regarding toilets, sports competitions and mis-pronouning; but it would give us some space without totally invalidating biology)

But the whole tension is over sports: Do we base sports on the biological reality of sex or mute our awareness of that objective fact[1] to preference “identity” — even if the outcome is females[2] no longer having a space to compete? [1] - Humans like other apes (and mammals) are sexually dimorphic. [2] - Female is the scientific term referring to the sex.

> But the whole tension is over sports:

which is stupid, because at least with professional sports it deals with 0,001% of population. And in some rando backyard leagues no one cares. Really bad hill to die on.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#882

Post by globular-toast » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:52 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #806

boringuser2 wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Historically, women have been barred from pursuing education, from voting, from making their own medical decisions, from holding political/academic/religious/scientific positions of power, from controlling their own finances, and from participating in the majority of careers, among many many other examples. Lack of access to these things necessarily constrains one’s autonomy. And some of these restrictions persist ev…

[flagged]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#883

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

snehk wrote: post #528

nicbou wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was not my experience. The message was bitterness, and there is a reason their lot is poorly perceived. Try /r/menslib for a healthier discussion that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything.

> that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything. Without clicking the link, I just know it's gonna be the patriarchy/masculinity, right?

Yup! https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/wiki/meta/profeminist

> We use many of the tools created by feminism to discuss and address men's issues.

They hit every feminist buzzword in existence here, including patriarchy: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/wiki/glossary

This place appears about as toxic for men as any place I could ever imagine. I feel sorry for anyone tricked into joining that community.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#884

Post by haswell » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:02 PM UTC

jncfhnb wrote: post #868

haswell wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a zero sum game. We can acknowledge that there has been regression or no change in some areas without any bearing on the negative outcomes of over corrective attitudes towards men. Food for thought: the types of men who are likely to rely on macho masculinity and the abuse of power dynamics are the least likely to be phased by an undercurrent of anti-male sentiment. Sensitive men, the men who are not prop…

I don’t agree. “Sensitive men” are acutely aware of the behavior of “toxic masculinity men”. It’s not a behavior that exclusively affects women. It affects everyone. I can’t say I’ve ever felt threatened by this concept as a guy. Semantics get messy and people can use terms however they want but the basic to me feels obvious and just. It is no surprise that such men don’t have their emotional needs met. But there are…

> I don’t agree. “Sensitive men” are acutely aware of the behavior of “toxic masculinity men”. It’s not a behavior that exclusively affects women. It affects everyone.

I agree with this, and I'm not sure on which point you disagree.

My point was that the broader cultural anti-male rhetoric that arose as an (understandable) response to toxic masculinity tends to have the least impact on the worst perpetrators, and the most negative impact on those who are not the problem to begin with.

And to your point, there are many layers involved here, and reducing this to just a spectrum of masculinity is not sufficient on its own. We need broader thinking.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#885

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

jadamson wrote: post #700

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just know it's gonna be the patriarchy/masculinity, right? I don't think a single person blames masculinity for mens problems. Did you by any chance hear the word toxic masculinity and assume all masuclinity was under attack because that is not the same? Also, ngl your comment reads like "ohh why am I bleeding, without checking with a doctor I am gonna guess the answer is the knife lodged in my back, right?" Like…

Name a positive masculine trait, something which men tend to have and women tend not to (should go without saying - it's not a "masculine" trait otherwise). I look forward to your rendition of 4'33".

> I look forward to your rendition of 4'33".

Holy shit you absolutely NAILED their response.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#886

Post by giardini » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

The author's view is of obviously troubled boys (obvious enough to people around the boys to direct them to therapy). Non-troubled boys may have very different viewpoints.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#887

Post by Workaccount2 » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

bobsmooth wrote: post #763

bobsmooth wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning, if you are a man with low self-esteem do not visit that sub.

If you need an example: "I'm nearing 30. I've internalized the "leave women alone at all times" and "men are trash" rhetoric so hard that I almost consider myself a burden to them simply by existing. I've gone out of my way to minimize interactions with women because I've catastrophized that my mere presence is bothersome." https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/13ov3wh/spare_a_ki...

I've heard conspiracy that 3rd wave feminism is just a tool for filtering out weak men like this guy.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#888

Post by ineedasername » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

bergerjac wrote: post #455

ineedasername wrote: post #95

This plays out at all levels. I felt extremely insulted just a few days ago when my youngest’s preschool held a gathering to celebrate their “graduation” to pre-school. At least 4 times mothers were called on to step forward— once to have a song sung to them, another to receive a flower, etc. Fathers were not mentioned at all. This prompted me to look around, get a rough sense of the distribution… Counting the kids &…

Did you communicate to the organizer about this? In modern society we're normally conditioned to avoid confrontation, but it's the best way to initiate a proactive solution.

Nothing to be done at this point: the event is over and my child is done with that school.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#889

Post by lisasays » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

_xnmw wrote: post #593

OK, this is going to sound extremely controversial, but as a person who lived for many years in three different worlds: 1. The Western world (born/raised/educated in Canada) 2. The Arab world (lived for years in Jordan, have Muslim/Arab roots) 3. Eastern Europe (currently living in Ukraine for many years, now volunteering in the war) My observation is that 1. has an overly effeminate culture and harmfully stifles mas…

Would you care to elaborate on Observation 1 ("has an overly effeminate culture and harmfully stifles masculinity")?

Also, re: "men are men and women are women" -- how are LGBT rights doing in Ukraine outside of Kyiv these days?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#890

Post by ajsnigrutin » Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 4:23 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #622

93po wrote: post #260

I'm mid 30s now and my childhood is full of instances of me being treated with contempt for being a boy by my teachers and female peers. Like, outright mocking in ways by teachers that in retrospect I would consider nearly traumatic and abusive. Maybe public, unashamed contempt is more recent?

I live in a small EU country, and at our largest universitey, there are ~50 more women enrolled than men (60-40 ratio). Does it bother anyone? Of course not... they are more worried why in a few colleges (engineering mostly) ther are still more men than women and try to encourage more women to go there. Education (and a lot of other parts of society) has(ve) left men behind, and it starts in the childhood and never s…

50%

just saw the error now