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U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

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Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#201

Post by robswc »

ch4s3 wrote: post #169
robswc wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>generally happening in cross walks in cities Do you have a source for this?

Excuse me I had to recheck the CDC data, the most common spots are actually in urban areas on shoulders or where there is no crosswalk. Basically in places where pedestrian infrastructure is poor.

Do you have a link to this data? I'd be curious to see it.

I've driven through/around the deadliest city for pedestrians and in my experience driving there, it seemed both drivers and pedestrians had a death wish. Many drivers were running red lights and many pedestrians were just crossing wherever they felt like it. Also, lots of people obviously on drugs vaguely aware of their surroundings.

So what you're saying checks out, I'm just wondering about the degree to which these things are a factor.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#202

Post by redwall_hp »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

What is your definition of a convenience store? To me, a convenience store sells candy, snacks, beverages, sometimes coffee and rather nasty hot prepared food, vapes and tobacco products. 95% of what a convenience store sells is stuff that you really should not be eating. Perhaps they'll have a small basket of apples or bananas, but they are a far cry from the small grocery stores I've seen in European neighborhoods…

A konbini (convenience store) in Japan serves the purposes of a fast food restaurant and small grocery store. New York bodegas are often similar.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#203

Post by circlefavshape »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

What is your definition of a convenience store? To me, a convenience store sells candy, snacks, beverages, sometimes coffee and rather nasty hot prepared food, vapes and tobacco products. 95% of what a convenience store sells is stuff that you really should not be eating. Perhaps they'll have a small basket of apples or bananas, but they are a far cry from the small grocery stores I've seen in European neighborhoods…

I was on holidays in Sardinia 15 years ago, and around the corner from the place I was staying was a corner shop that sold the usual sweets and tobacco products and wine and bread ... and a zillion other things, including live fish (for eating).

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#204

Post by SoftTalker »

brightstep wrote: post #118
wussboy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforcement is not the solution because it requires constant vigilance. Road design is because you can build the road in a way that brings about the speed/safety envelope you desire, and then it always works correctly whether anyone is monitoring it or not.

It's always amazing to me how on this engineering-heavy forum, so many users fail to recognize the benefit some simple engineering can deliver.

Well because the roads are what they are, and "reengineering" them to be something else would take years, would be disruptive, and cost millions. So at best you'll get change when the road needs to be rebuilt anyway, because it's worn out.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#205

Post by sleepybrett »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

What is your definition of a convenience store? To me, a convenience store sells candy, snacks, beverages, sometimes coffee and rather nasty hot prepared food, vapes and tobacco products. 95% of what a convenience store sells is stuff that you really should not be eating. Perhaps they'll have a small basket of apples or bananas, but they are a far cry from the small grocery stores I've seen in European neighborhoods…

Outside of major cities and very rural areas maybe. NYC lives and breathes on bodegas. Many very small towns will probably ONLY have a 'convenience' store, with an actual grocery store being many miles away. My family's mountain cabin is 5 miles from a convenience store, but 25 miles from a grocery store.

In these situations Convenience stores probably have a very small section of fairly durable produce, maybe some frozen meat but probably some lunchmeat, certainly things like toilet paper, bread, cheese, eggs, snack foods, household cleaners. Certainly not the kind of selection you'll get out of your kroger's but enough to get by. (the place near my family cabin also has a small selection of fly fishing gear during the 'season' swap for some wintery items during the winter)

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#206

Post by saiya-jin »

conductr wrote: post #108
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would COVID/lockdowns have “changed the way people drive?” Any proposed mechanism? Seems more likely you had a lot of shifting around of people’s driving (e.g. city dwellers moving to suburbs)

The roads were wide open for 2+ years, people got used to driving very fast and not really paying attention to their surroundings because there wasn't much other traffic to start with. People started running red lights because not other traffic to wait on. You could drive recklessly without much risk. Now people are still driving recklessly but have a lot more cars and activity around them. One thing that I've notice…

By definition this should be a very small subset of drivers, since before as you claim 'roads were empty'. If most drivers stayed at home they should not got those bad habits.

Very surreal this discussion, very US specific too. Here in Europe, in past 3 years tons of new cycling infrastructure, either wider roads or parts of roads taken from cars and given to cyclists (ie 1 lane instead of 2 lane roads). The goal isn't to move traffic asap, but rather make coming into cities as annoying as possible, so key intersections have in incoming directions green light ie for 10 seconds.

And no, not seeing any increase in aggression neither. But then again Europe is massive and culturally extremely diverse, and I haven't visited more than 10 countries in past 3 years so somewhere this may be valid, but its not an overall trend.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#207

Post by bannedbybros »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #30
luxurytent wrote: post #11

I guess pickup trucks fall under the category of SUVs? It's wild how we've lost access to our streets and neighbourhoods for the convenience of mostly suburban vehicle users. Actually not wild, but disgraceful. The majority of roads are too wide and with little options for alternative modes of transport, drivers are growingly frustrated and angry on the road. We continue to make the mistake of thinking the solution i…

In many areas, it would take a ton of work in the effort of making destinations closer to each other. Huge parking lots, setbacks, wide roads, and detached houses on their own quarter, or even eighth, of an acre lot make it so the choice between walking/bicycling and using a personal car is not much of a choice. Public transportation is also not an option due to how inconvenient it is due to how infrequently it would…

[dead]

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#208

Post by rjsw »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

What is your definition of a convenience store? To me, a convenience store sells candy, snacks, beverages, sometimes coffee and rather nasty hot prepared food, vapes and tobacco products. 95% of what a convenience store sells is stuff that you really should not be eating. Perhaps they'll have a small basket of apples or bananas, but they are a far cry from the small grocery stores I've seen in European neighborhoods…

At least in the UK and France, a fair proportion of "convenience stores" are owned by the big supermarket chains and stock a subset of the products that you get in a large store.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#209

Post by somenameforme »

This article seems to be based on a butchery of statistics, for the sake of a headline. It's referring to total deaths, not per capita, let alone per pedestrian. The article breathlessly claims that, "...more than 7,500 pedestrians were killed by drivers last year — the highest number since 1981."

Not only has the population increased by more than 100 million people since 1981, but the number of pedestrians has increased even faster than the number of people has, with ever more people going carless - especially in some of the largest and most densely packed cities, like NYC.

That these values are staying so low seems to be the real story, as it would seem to indicate that cities are doing a great job of adjusting to an increasing pedestrian population. But, if it bleeds - it leads, I suppose. Perhaps with the modern addendum that if it doesn't bleed, then just splash some ketchup on it.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#210

Post by ssully »

sokoloff wrote: post #124
hermannj314 wrote: post #46

In many states you are required to stop if a pedestrian is crossing the street. What has happened a lot is I will stop to let a pedestrian cross the street at a legal cross walk and the person behind me will assume I am an idiot, honk, and speed around me. My intuition is this is the cause of a significant amount of pedestrian deaths: impatient drivers that assume every stopped car is just an obstacle to zip around.…

The problem with making this jailable (which I do not support in the absence of a collision) is that you stopping to let a pedestrian legally cross is difficult to distinguish from you stopping in a travel lane or bike lane to pick up an Uber fare or stopping to double park near someone waiting for their own Uber. The latter two cases are actually obstacles created by anti-social behavior and are probably more common…

If you pull up behind a car stopped at a pedestrian crossing, your assumption should be they are stopped for a pedestrian.
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