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Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

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Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#21

Post by gorkish »

ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

> require a generational shift to deploy.

Photonic bandgap / Bragg fiber is being produced in quantity, and some subsea cables are using it.

I'm pretty sure it's the satellite lasers that require the generational shift. One subsea cable has no bearing on any other; once the first is installed, you're up and running. not so with laser-connected swarms.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#22

Post by giobox »

CAP_NET_ADMIN wrote: post #16
pushfoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.

Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.

Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37

Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech:

> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell...

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#23

Post by ackbar03 »

toast0 wrote: post #19
huijzer wrote: post #4

Eliminate deep sea cables? How are they going to send the lasers in a curve from one base station to the next? Starlink is already working on a backhaul from satellite to satellite. Interestingly, they claim that they can speed up data transfers by 50% over long distances. Musk said that in a Tweet which I cannot find now. I looked a bit into it and the reason seems to be that light trough a cable can only reach 70%…

Sending lasers in a curve should be easy if you use circular polarization. /s You would send to a satellite in view; my orbital dynamics are poor, but I think with the LEO orbits, you may need to relay in space for a cross ocean link, as it seems unlikely one satelite would have a view of both sides. But Telstar 1 and 2 were used for cross-Atlantic microwave relay with a single satellite in view at a time. Future Tel…

How hard can it be

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#24

Post by Aaargh20318 »

huijzer wrote: post #4

Eliminate deep sea cables? How are they going to send the lasers in a curve from one base station to the next? Starlink is already working on a backhaul from satellite to satellite. Interestingly, they claim that they can speed up data transfers by 50% over long distances. Musk said that in a Tweet which I cannot find now. I looked a bit into it and the reason seems to be that light trough a cable can only reach 70%…

> Eliminate deep sea cables? How are they going to send the lasers in a curve from one base station to the next?

They use a special laser that gives the photons a bit of topspin.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#25

Post by NelsonMinar »

The key thing here is it allows for very high bandwidth to go almost anywhere on earth, not just spots where it's easy to land a cable. Starlink's already demonstrated how great that is for consumer bandwidth (50Mbps); a multi-gigabit link terminated at a satellite is fantastic.

The part that impresses me most is they're talking about LEO satellites. Those move fast! Starlink does this with a very impressive phased array antenna design. Conceptually tracking a moving satellite with a laser is as easy as rotating a mirror, not sure how hard it is in practice.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#27

Post by dlisboa »

huijzer wrote: post #4

Eliminate deep sea cables? How are they going to send the lasers in a curve from one base station to the next? Starlink is already working on a backhaul from satellite to satellite. Interestingly, they claim that they can speed up data transfers by 50% over long distances. Musk said that in a Tweet which I cannot find now. I looked a bit into it and the reason seems to be that light trough a cable can only reach 70%…

> How are they going to send the lasers in a curve from one base station to the next?

All you need is a well-placed black hole in Earth’s atmosphere.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#28

Post by CAP_NET_ADMIN »

giobox wrote: post #22
CAP_NET_ADMIN wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.

Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell.…

"Kinetic kill" is arguably easier to detect and harder to deny.

I haven't said that we should only focus on sea cables, I said that we should do both so that the overall reliability and resiliency increases.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#29

Post by kelnos »

giobox wrote: post #22
CAP_NET_ADMIN wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.

Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell.…

Can those be deployed "anonymously" though? Publicly destroying another nation's satellite would be an act of war. Quietly and secretly cutting an undersea cable, while being able to plausibly deflect blame, is a bit safer.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#30

Post by bhouston »

posnet wrote: post #20
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

The question isn't whether satellite links can beat deep-sea cables, it's whether they can beat shortwave. https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/05/07/shortwave-tr...

And HFT setups are also nearly colocated with the exchanges I understand -- as close as they can get physically, so adding a hop to space and back may be adding quite a bit of distance.
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