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JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

theregister.com

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Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#171

Post by 411111111111111 »

andsoitis wrote: post #126
411111111111111 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand you're saying it can't be done without some whistleblower turning up, on the other hand you think that its possible to happen accidentally. It's kinda either/or. It's either possible that someone can get full admin privileges and deletes it off-the-record or they've got enough safeguards in place that the accidental deletion isn't possible either.

It seems very reasonable that 47 million messages were deleted from 8,700 mail boxes by accident, but it seems like a stretch of the imagination to say this resulted in the intentional deletion of the EXACT evidence that they were being subpoenaed for, without forgetting to delete SOME of the evidence.

What? according to the article, all emails were deleted in that given timeframe with the excuse "they thought it would be impossible to delete records that were still required to be kept by regulation"

I don't think your argument works unless the article is wrong.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#172

Post by stronglikedan »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #146

Doesn't really matter if this is a mistake or corruption. When you pretend you have the legitimacy to run something as big as JP Morgan then you should not be allowed to screw up that much. You earn that much money, you should demonstrate equal level of competency. They should get jail time either way.

Indeed. Not only are these slaps on the wrist accounted for in initial estimations of the cost of doing business, but then they're just written off and ironically inconsequential. There needs to be real consequences.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#173

Post by JumpCrisscross »

36479669thrw wrote: post #167
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should be fined to a degree that it becomes clear to management that these "not uncommon" practices must become very uncommon Why? Fining isn’t done for fetish, it’s done proportional to harm. The article mentions twelve civil suits (four independent). JPMorgan will lose those. Any lawyer worth their salt, meanwhile, will be looking for claims which could reasonably involve the evidence which was deleted to fi…

Don't get stuck on the word "fine'. The fines cans be judgment at court. The cost of doing business this way must go up, way up, so that these critical institutions are legally transparent* and motivated by a strong desire to avoid drastic haircuts. *for example, no more "the dog ate our homework" excuses.

> Don't get stuck on the word "fine'. The fines cans be judgment at court.

All fines are subject to court supervision. This sentence makes no sense.

> cost of doing business this way must go up, way up

We want regulators thinking of the public, not randomly increasing the cost of business. This seems more motivated by hatred for a thriving industry than claims to specific damages. Regulators who pursue this path are rightfully overturned by courts for acting capriciously.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#174

Post by bee_rider »

sensanaty wrote: post #46

If it weren't so depressing it'd be incredibly hilarious how blatant and open the corruption here is, as if anyone on planet earth is gonna buy this BS story. The fines for these types of accidents should be starting with the letter B and ending with illions, lets see how often these types of mistakes happen in the future afterwards.

No need to fine them, if this stuff is needed in a lawsuit just let the other side make adverse inferences by default whenever the data could have been deleted.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#175

Post by gmd63 »

36479669thrw wrote: post #144
giantg2 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the story or incorrect archive settings/setup to be reasonably plausible and even likely. I work in finance and misconfiguration of systems are not that uncommon. Testing and reviewing archive settings is often not very thorough. For example, I was working on a system that handles holdings and trading information at the fund level which covers AUM that starts with a T and ends in rillions. There was an SQL inj…

> I find the story or incorrect archive settings/setup to be reasonably plausible and even likely. I work in finance and misconfiguration of systems are not that uncommon. Testing and reviewing archive settings is often not very thorough. GP's point stands: they should be fined to a degree that it becomes clear to management that these "not uncommon" practices must become very uncommon.

100%

Allowing "smart" individuals to play dumb to benefit themselves is not smart at all at a societal level.

Strategists at these companies examine the costs of failure or cheating, and simply see that it's worth it to cut corners or pile on risk. Just look at JP Morgans history in getting fined for market manipulation.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#177

Post by Supermancho »

wongarsu wrote: post #127
andsoitis wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this So you think a few C-level execs went to 8,700 mail boxes and deleted 47 million messages to remove the EXACT evidence that was being subpoenaed?

Presumably they would have gone to some low-level tech and told him something to the effect of "We are looking for a new team lead, you might be a good fit. Completely unrelated: how difficult would it be for emails from the last couple years to be 'accidentally' deleted as part of routine operations". I'm not saying that's what happened, I find the sequence of events described by JP Morgan believable. But the same p…

> Presumably they would have gone to some low-level tech and told him something to the effect of "We are looking for a new team lead, you might be a good fit.

Not a chance. NOTHING gets done at JPMorgan without a mountain-load of direction and a grip of meetings. This would have had to wipe out both the data and records of that direction. Because the layers of tape are so thick you can't travel floor to floor without an access card coding and used to log your time and that even these simple systems don't work all the time (which generates even more busy work, yay), it's a form of friction against any sort of "secret" dealings within the company. If your keycard/dev env/database access/wiki edits/etc are so chaotically managed, it's unlikely that you will leave 0 evidence behind. Note that there was enough information to reconstruct what happened, to some degree.

I would bet someone didn't communicate the arcane symbol column that meant "do not delete for legal reasons", in some SQL. It's that chaotic, which reinforces the paranoia about the legal consequences that are foisted on every employee, routinely. If you have a shoplifting conviction (a record that hasn't been purged), you aren't getting hired. Viewed from the inside, it's strangely dystopian, but far from subtle.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#178

Post by nebula8804 »

mandmandam wrote: post #140
andsoitis wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even…

In the entire, very long article, there are only three references to Jewishness - twice saying that people had Jewish immigrant parents, and once in reference to the makeup of a particular mob which also references their Italian members, putting the lie to your claim that other ethnic backgrounds are not mentioned. Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear t…

>Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear tactic. It's pretty disgusting though, and many Jewish people have pointed out that it's a very harmful and anti-semitic thing to do.

That ship has long sailed in the US. I don't see this behavior stopping in earnest until the greater populace stops giving any credibility to the claims due to repetitional damage. In fact right now they have become emboldened after the 2020 elections. Meanwhile there is a real rise in anti-semitism that is likely occurring among the far-right.

Change is starting to happen online in that every single thread i've been seeing on Reddit/HN that calls out Israel also tends to completely swat away the anti-Semitic claims thrown out when any criticism of Israel typically occurs. Whether this translates into real world changes remains to be seen but we are starting to see it in the voting patterns of Millennials and Gen-Z(them supporting comments made by "the Squad" and electing more reps that don't shy away). It very will likely be a generational shift as Israel continues to damage its reputation in the US due to its tactics.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#180

Post by gmd63 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #173
36479669thrw wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get stuck on the word "fine'. The fines cans be judgment at court. The cost of doing business this way must go up, way up, so that these critical institutions are legally transparent* and motivated by a strong desire to avoid drastic haircuts. *for example, no more "the dog ate our homework" excuses.

> Don't get stuck on the word "fine'. The fines cans be judgment at court. All fines are subject to court supervision. This sentence makes no sense. > cost of doing business this way must go up, way up We want regulators thinking of the public, not randomly increasing the cost of business. This seems more motivated by hatred for a thriving industry than claims to specific damages. Regulators who pursue this path are…

Regulators are not thinking of the public when they allow corporate sociopaths to neglect societal best interest while market fixing / mismanaging records / etc., activities that have demonstrably siphoned wealth from the lower class and moved it increasingly to the ivory towers of companies that do not deserve the influence that makes them "too big to fail".

The wealth inequality gap is widening and it's due to pussyfooted enforcement on white collar crime and strategic negligence.

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