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JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

theregister.com

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Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#121

Post by jokowueu »

andsoitis wrote: post #115
alexfromapex wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There doesn't have to be a "network". This probably reached the highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this and take the fine. You're incredibly naive if you think this wasn't intentional.

> highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this So you think a few C-level execs went to 8,700 mail boxes and deleted 47 million messages to remove the EXACT evidence that was being subpoenaed?

Here Is something You Should add to your Vocabulary

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#122

Post by hdidvdksv »

kris_lujanovic wrote: post #72

As someone who worked in finance I call b.s. When you need to do any infrastructure change not to mention data manipulation it takes million signatures and meetings. Like 13 meetings to deal with one ex employee corporate cloud folder. Unless they end up in court. Then somehow million things happen on their own in their benefit.

[flagged]

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#123

Post by grugagag »

hinata08 wrote: post #89
sensanaty wrote: post #46

If it weren't so depressing it'd be incredibly hilarious how blatant and open the corruption here is, as if anyone on planet earth is gonna buy this BS story. The fines for these types of accidents should be starting with the letter B and ending with illions, lets see how often these types of mistakes happen in the future afterwards.

Why fines ? Fines for this type of accident should be the permanent removal of the banking license. What kind of company can you trust if evidence can be deleted "by accident" ?

Proportionl fines that dent seriously into their profits ensures this does not happen again. But usually the fines end up being slaps on wrists which ensures continuity of these schemes

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#124

Post by Ialdaboth »

yehosef wrote: post #120
hinata08 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why fines ? Fines for this type of accident should be the permanent removal of the banking license. What kind of company can you trust if evidence can be deleted "by accident" ?

Governments do not just "remove the banking license" of JP Morgan.

Yes, this is precisely the problem.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#125

Post by hinata08 »

yehosef wrote: post #120
hinata08 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why fines ? Fines for this type of accident should be the permanent removal of the banking license. What kind of company can you trust if evidence can be deleted "by accident" ?

Governments do not just "remove the banking license" of JP Morgan.

Shame

I have never just deleted millions of emails and pieces of evidence in a listed company, especially one that falls under the SOX act (it implies some governance.)

Did they have the IT governance or not ?

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#126

Post by andsoitis »

411111111111111 wrote: post #114
andsoitis wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of record keeping in a place like JP Morgan is enormous. Just payments transactions are about $10 trillion a day. Unless documents are ring fenced from the start and not many systems and people have access to it, it is highly unlikely that someone is able to destroy it in all the right places without anybody noticing. If you read the link in my previous comment, you'll see this isn't the first time they got…

On the one hand you're saying it can't be done without some whistleblower turning up, on the other hand you think that its possible to happen accidentally. It's kinda either/or. It's either possible that someone can get full admin privileges and deletes it off-the-record or they've got enough safeguards in place that the accidental deletion isn't possible either.

It seems very reasonable that 47 million messages were deleted from 8,700 mail boxes by accident, but it seems like a stretch of the imagination to say this resulted in the intentional deletion of the EXACT evidence that they were being subpoenaed for, without forgetting to delete SOME of the evidence.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#127

Post by wongarsu »

andsoitis wrote: post #115
alexfromapex wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There doesn't have to be a "network". This probably reached the highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this and take the fine. You're incredibly naive if you think this wasn't intentional.

> highest executive levels and a few of them discussed it and said let's accidentally delete this So you think a few C-level execs went to 8,700 mail boxes and deleted 47 million messages to remove the EXACT evidence that was being subpoenaed?

Presumably they would have gone to some low-level tech and told him something to the effect of "We are looking for a new team lead, you might be a good fit. Completely unrelated: how difficult would it be for emails from the last couple years to be 'accidentally' deleted as part of routine operations".

I'm not saying that's what happened, I find the sequence of events described by JP Morgan believable. But the same process issues that allowed this to happen accidentally would allow it to happen maliciously.

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#128

Post by chaostheory »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #50
danuker wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC is not in the justice business. It is a puppet of the banks themselves. A $4M fine is NOTHING for a company netting $12.62B a QUARTER.

The $4M is a slap on the wrist, but if there's evidence that it was done on purpose, and the deleted data is evidence for a bigger case, they'd be in much bigger trouble still. But, innocent until proven guilty; if there's no indication of any missing evidence, it'll stay at the failure to retain data fine.

No one went to jail for the 2008 crisis, and most of the regulatory bodies are private corporations masquerading as a public entity. To add salt to the wound, the SEC is very discerning as to when to enforce the law

It doesn’t matter whether or not the above paragraph is reality, because masses perceive it as reality, and trust in public institutions continues to dive. If confidence isn’t restored soon, then things might start to destabilize

Re: JP Morgan fined by SEC for deleting email records

#129

Post by giantg2 »

sensanaty wrote: post #46

If it weren't so depressing it'd be incredibly hilarious how blatant and open the corruption here is, as if anyone on planet earth is gonna buy this BS story. The fines for these types of accidents should be starting with the letter B and ending with illions, lets see how often these types of mistakes happen in the future afterwards.

I find the story or incorrect archive settings/setup to be reasonably plausible and even likely. I work in finance and misconfiguration of systems are not that uncommon. Testing and reviewing archive settings is often not very thorough.

For example, I was working on a system that handles holdings and trading information at the fund level which covers AUM that starts with a T and ends in rillions. There was an SQL injection vulnerability with schema owner access. Luckily this was an internal app, but still there are trade desk devs who could accidentally paste a drop table statement with a name collison. Anyways, I brought all this up to the principal. I was told this isn't a real big deal because they have real-time backups. I asked if they ever tested the backups... no. Do they have procedures for restoring from backups... no. They go nuts if there's a 5 minute outage, so how long would it take to restore... no idea.

Trust me ignorance is very believable, even in regulated industries.

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