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Counting the Hard Way

rupertmckay.com

11–20 of 23 posts

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#11

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

Does it not boil down to a tradeoff between the amount of symbols you are willing to learn and the space you want to use to write a number down ?

Base 10 strikes me as good tradeoff

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#12

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

Does it not boil down to a tradeoff between the amount of symbols you are willing to learn and the space you want to use to write a number down ? Base 10 strikes me as good tradeoff

Also a tradeoff with the size of the arithmetic tables one has to learn by rote. It scales with n^2. 100 entries in base 10, and just 36 in base 6, for example.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#13

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

Base 12! The operations humans do a lot divide by 2,3,4,12 can be done evenly. Your goal is to pack as many factors into your base as possible. They're called highly composite numbers and their big brother superior highly composite numbers.

Base 10: 1,2,5,10

Base 12: 1,2,3,4,6,12

Base 60: 1,2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20,30,60

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_highly_composite_nu...

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#14

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

Does it not boil down to a tradeoff between the amount of symbols you are willing to learn and the space you want to use to write a number down ? Base 10 strikes me as good tradeoff

...and also the number of integer factors of your base. 10 only has 1, 2, 5, and 10. Bases 8 and 6 have just as many. Bases 12 and 60 (used by the Sumerians and Babylonians) offer more convenient divisors.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#15
Knuth's volume that goes over different number systems was a ton of fun. Goes over some of the interesting ideas behind such things as two's compliment numbers, as well.

That is, even within the same base, you can have different ways of doing things. "Balanced ternary" is the one that seems like it had the most potential outside of binary, in a computer. That ship has firmly sailed, at this point.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#16
I'm a big fan of the Fibonacci base: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_coding

It has the nice property that it's a) binary, and b) each number contains a '11' substring at the end, but nowhere else. This makes it slightly less efficient than the usual base 2 binary, but handles variable length integers nicely; you always know where one number ends and the next begins, so you don't have to worry about overflow or specifying the length of a number.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#17

>"The Quarter-Imaginary numeral system was first proposed by Donald Knuth in 1960. The trick with this base is recognising that powers of 2i "rotate" through the Gaussian plane. " Powers: -1: -(1/2)i, 0: 1, 1: 2i, 2: -4, 3: -8i, 4: 16, 5: 32i, 6: -64 etc. PDS: Now this is highly interesting to me! A system which collapses a 2D number system, that is, non-imaginary + imaginary numbers (AKA, the "Complex (2D) Plane") -…

Nothing surprising here. The cross products of countable set are countable and a bijection between N and NxN which you can then extend as been known for ages. The whole thing falls apart as soon as you use continuous set.

It is quite surprising to most people when they first learn that there are more real numbers than there are integers, but there are just as many pairs of integers as there are integers.

In other words, infinity*infinity=infinity whilst 2^infinity>infinity

The proofs are pretty easy, but that doesn't make the result less surprising to people who don't know it yet.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#18

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

I think this might be the ultimate example in human history of a 'legacy' system we are completely beyond the point of feasibility of changing in terms of cost / benefit.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing surprising here. The cross products of countable set are countable and a bijection between N and NxN which you can then extend as been known for ages. The whole thing falls apart as soon as you use continuous set.

The cross product of continuum sets is also equivalent to a continuum, so it does not fall apart, it forms a space-filling curve on complex plane. See z-curve section of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quater-imaginary_base

You learn something everyday. For whatever reason I was convinced there was no bijection between R and its cross-products which is extremely wrong.

Re: Counting the Hard Way

#20
post #13

Stuff like this makes me feel like the base10 system might eventually get replaced by an even more usefull counting system.

Base 12! The operations humans do a lot divide by 2,3,4,12 can be done evenly. Your goal is to pack as many factors into your base as possible. They're called highly composite numbers and their big brother superior highly composite numbers. Base 10: 1,2,5,10 Base 12: 1,2,3,4,6,12 Base 60: 1,2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20,30,60 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_highly_composite_nu...

Children starting school would not be amused needing to learn 144 entries arithmetic tables. Lots of people were scarred already, starting with a lot of resentment against math due to sheer boredom of rote learning 100 entries tables close when they are first presented to the subject.
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