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How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

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Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#131

Post by haspok »

blueridge wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/9IU8W I've got an old (2002) car, I love the buttons and knobs. No cameras, no screens, no key fob, no voice control, no electronic "safety" features, no tracking. The 4L straight six engine is still going strong at almost 300,000 miles. What's funny is watching my friends attempt to back out of the driveway or parking lot without a camera and screen. They put it in reverse and their eyes go right…

> The 4L straight six engine...

Surely the mpg is excellent, and so are the emissions... (And don't call me Shirley!)

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#132

Post by XCSme »

bnjmn wrote: post #7

Are there any new cars / car brands that credibly promise not to track their drivers? Any car with a network connection for software updates seems likely to be harvesting driver data, or is at least capable of doing so.

Waiting for The Framework Car.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#134

Post by Retric »

soupfordummies wrote: post #124
Retric wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t want to be tracked then you have to make sacrifices on the scale of not carrying around a cellphone. But that really doesn’t scale. Handing out your customers secrets doesn’t have a big red flag that automatically tells them you’re selling them out. That’s the core issue which has nothing to do with customer choices and why regulation is one of the few ways to give customers informed choices.

Not carrying a cell phone is a pretty huge sacrifice now—it’s almost to the point where you have to have one in order to participate in society.

Giving up cellphones isn’t as big deal as you’re suggesting. At work and at home you can call or email em, they’re only out of contract for a few hours a day.

Being required to hand over cellphones when entering a secure facility makes them far less appealing.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#135

Post by kramerger »

bnjmn wrote: post #7

Are there any new cars / car brands that credibly promise not to track their drivers? Any car with a network connection for software updates seems likely to be harvesting driver data, or is at least capable of doing so.

Don't know about others, but European car manufacturers are under strict regulations and try their damn best to not record anything as it immediately becomes a liability.

Edit: I know at least a few companies have a test vehicle program that operates under different rules, but those are not sold to general public. So the company receive high quality data without getting into trouble with GDPR.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#136

Post by graftak »

paddw wrote: post #71
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #53

It’s becoming impossible to practice what you preach when it comes to data privacy. ‘Don’t like it, don’t buy it’ is difficult to execute unless you don’t mind not having a car, mobile phone, tv, browse the internet or even go out in a public place. There needs to be regulation and at least the ability to at least easily opt out of any of this insanity, but until there’s one (or probably many) widespread data-breache…

imo, if you don't want the government to track you, the battle is already lost, but there is probably room to limit what private companies are allowed to do on the regulatory front.

The problem here is that governments themselves became dependent on the insane amount of user tracking these companies do, to the point where it is against their own ‘best interests’ to stop these practices. Stuff like this happens all over the place—even the EU—under the guise of stopping terrorism and/or child pornography.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#137

Post by ethbr0 »

Retric wrote: post #134
soupfordummies wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not carrying a cell phone is a pretty huge sacrifice now—it’s almost to the point where you have to have one in order to participate in society.

Giving up cellphones isn’t as big deal as you’re suggesting. At work and at home you can call or email em, they’re only out of contract for a few hours a day. Being required to hand over cellphones when entering a secure facility makes them far less appealing.

Parent was likely talking about activities for which there is only a "mobile app" solution, with no fall-back human option.

The usual pattern is:

1. Company releases mobile app

2. Company directs users to mobile app, for data collection purposes, and releases new physical activities app-first. Backup, non-app methods are an afterthought

3. At some point, the non-app methods are so broken, under/unstaffed, that they're functionally useless

Consequently, you now can't do the thing without a device.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#138

Post by ethbr0 »

xnx wrote: post #126
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name any major organisation that’s not selling data excluding companies such as signal and (presumably) apple…

Google, Facebook, Microsoft

The only reason those 3 aren't selling data is that they have the vertical integration to launder and monetize it themselves.

They don't have to sell it, because they can keep it, productize it, and then sell the targeting information to advertisers, without revealing the underlying data.

--

Imagine a Google, Facebook, or Microsoft without an ad network and devices/apps to serve it on.

Then tell me they wouldn't immediately be selling their tracking data to anyone who would buy.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#139

Post by ethbr0 »

the_gastropod wrote: post #100
dionidium wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parsimonious explanation is that most people do not care about this issue as much as you do, which suggests quite plainly that no such regulation is necessary. You might want to consider that your views on privacy are eccentric and unpopular and that nobody is asking for laws to "protect them" from something that doesn't bother them in the first place.

You’re kind of suggesting that most people understand this issue and still don’t care about it. I suspect that’s very much not the case. Like with leaded gasoline, a lack of major public outcry does not imply there’s no need for government regulation.

Indeed. People cannot be said to be making a choice when they're uninformed about the relevant details.

Study after study has shown that the general public has no idea about how their data is bought and sold, beyond "Oh, yeah, some tracking is done."

Chain of custody and user visible notification would change that.

Not "data may be used by third parties" but rather "{Toyota} sold your {radio listening data} to {iHeartRadio} on {6/23/2023}."

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#140

Post by ethbr0 »

flagrant_taco wrote: post #116
vGPU wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-covid, I drove a low slung coupe. My roof was roughly equal in height to most people’s windowsill. I was fine with it. Post covid, I drive a midsize suv, and am no longer comfortable riding my motorcycle. What has changed? Simple - the other drivers. I now often witness an accident almost daily. I had a car wipe out in front of me last week. I constantly have drivers blindly merging into my lane. I don’t know wha…

Do you think those are side effects of covid itself or more related to our pandemic response (lock downs, closing schools, WFH, vaccines, or something else)? This was pre-pandemic response, but for a few years I drove a Toyota MR2 and had a couple motorcycles. I feel pretty damn lucky to never have seen what would have happened to me wrecking any of those vehicles.

How'd the MR2 drive? I've had one of those on my quirk to-buy list for awhile.
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