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The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

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Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#41

Post by The_Colonel »

trilbyglens wrote: post #13
Octabrain wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "hate"? I personally find fascinating that kind of implicit cultural rules.

Because once you see the pattern it can become an oppressive social requirement. I'm american but have been living in Czechia for about 15 years, and I've seen friendships blown up due to shit like "we visited and he didn't even offer us lunch", or "she didn't even offer to pay for lunch". It's fun when you are a visitor and you can view it from a distance, but when it's the local unaware social OS, it's got a far di…

> I'm american but have been living in Czechia for about 15 years, and I've seen friendships blown up due to shit like "we visited and he didn't even offer us lunch", or "she didn't even offer to pay for lunch".

As a Czech (and a very picky eater who refuses a lot of food offered) I can't really confirm most of what you wrote. Paying for other people's lunch is not really a thing, other than perhaps in the context of a date (where the man is expected to pay).

Food is important mainly in the very old, wartime generation and even there it's mostly in the context of a family.

> Refusing food on a visit is basically equivalent to taking out a gun and shooting the family dog. You're likely to never be invited over again, and people will think you are a complete asshole.

It kind of looks like you've been having a bad time in Czechia, but this is very far from representative.

> There's absolutely no "I was in the neighborhood and thought I'd pop in and see what you're up to".

This part is true, but it's IMHO a "global-north-wide" change in the past few decades. It used to be quite normal 30 years ago.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#42

Post by [deleted] »

cubefox wrote: post #9
bartislartfast wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tea drinking in Ireland is a big part of the culture, and we have a lot of unwritten rules around it. I'm sure other irish HN'ers will jump in here and add to the list, but off the top of my head - if you don't offer someone tea when they come to visit, you are rude. if they refuse, and you accept their first offer without insisting, that's also rude. you have to persist a bit. this was parodied in the TV show "Fathe…

And I thought it was only the English who have such a close relationship to tea!

[deleted]

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#43

Post by lynx23 »

bartislartfast wrote: post #3
mock-possum wrote: post #2

It’s pretty bonkers how far out of their way humans will go to make things more difficult. Like it can’t just be drinking tea, it has to have vast sweeping sociological implications. Human beings are so very very extra.

Tea drinking in Ireland is a big part of the culture, and we have a lot of unwritten rules around it. I'm sure other irish HN'ers will jump in here and add to the list, but off the top of my head - if you don't offer someone tea when they come to visit, you are rude. if they refuse, and you accept their first offer without insisting, that's also rude. you have to persist a bit. this was parodied in the TV show "Fathe…

If someone asks me a question, I give a clear answer, and they ask the same question again, I consider them rude and obnoxious. It feels like talking down to someone, not qanting to accept their answer. I hate that behaviour. Although, I know it is part of a social dance, I strongly believe these dances need to be abolished.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#44

Post by VagabundoP »

vonzepp wrote: post #4
bartislartfast wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tea drinking in Ireland is a big part of the culture, and we have a lot of unwritten rules around it. I'm sure other irish HN'ers will jump in here and add to the list, but off the top of my head - if you don't offer someone tea when they come to visit, you are rude. if they refuse, and you accept their first offer without insisting, that's also rude. you have to persist a bit. this was parodied in the TV show "Fathe…

Accepting anything offered to you on the first offer is a bit rude. Basically, you are a guest of someone and shouldn't be a burden on them. They have to prove to you that you are not a burden, and then once that is clear you don't feel bad being served. Then your tea comes with cake, ham sandwiches and biscuit which is beyond the scope of the initial drink you were offered.

Yeah a good break down, and despite its size, Ireland has quite a variation depending on your county. As with everything trivial we'll fight you about it.

For a really good look at tea drinking read Strumpet City, apart from it being an amazing novel, has the many ways they brewed and drank tea at the turn of the century.

Irish Black tea tends to be different than English Black tea, apart from being superior of course, we source the leaves from different locations, something something due to rationing during WWII...

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#45

Post by cameronh90 »

bigger_inside wrote: post #24
vonzepp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting anything offered to you on the first offer is a bit rude. Basically, you are a guest of someone and shouldn't be a burden on them. They have to prove to you that you are not a burden, and then once that is clear you don't feel bad being served. Then your tea comes with cake, ham sandwiches and biscuit which is beyond the scope of the initial drink you were offered.

very culturally dependent. In Germany, the first offer is the offer. If you refuse it, there will not be a second one; and making a second, third offer, in turn, would be rude in Germany, as it is pestering and assumes I'm lying with the first answer or I don't know what I want. How dare you assume this? :D The English always think the Germans terribly rude. In turn, Germans find these English (also Irish, I guess) c…

It's not a lie. Often the "how are you" is answered with "not bad", i.e. nothing much to say or don't want to talk about it, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it turns into a conversation about how life is going, or the problems you're having, or what you're looking forward to at the weekend or on your holiday. Or maybe just some idle chat about how hot it's been. Not only is this inevitably more fun than whatever the meeting was supposed to be about, it allows you to become closer with your colleagues.

It's basically just giving some room for that social interaction, which may or may not be used.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#46

Post by cameronh90 »

bartislartfast wrote: post #28
mordae wrote: post #8

Truth be told, boiling tea leaves continuously does extract all the tanins and could lead to gastric distress for some. Better to make the tea the usual way and then keep it warm. You can use the leaves multiple times, though.

I remember when the TV show Broadchurch came out, and David Tennant's character made tea in the microwave, and there was national uproar in Britain. Later several scientific articles pointed out this is actually a better way to make tea. This event, along with Brexit and Covid, will surely be recognised by historians as the beginning of the downfall of the UK

Microwaving tea makes it foamy and taste "weird". Not sure what constitutes better, objectively, but subjectively it can get in the bin.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#47

Post by n4r9 »

mrob wrote: post #25
n4r9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things where everyone has heard a slightly different tale. I've read in other places the exact opposite: some people put milk in first in china cups because they think china is delicate and prone to cracking. Some people prefer milk afterwards so they can get the tea to the right colour. Others say that putting it in first may prevent denaturing the milk proteins. More research is needed.

Not only was research done, it was the origin of statistical significance testing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_tasting_tea

Incredible! Thank you for the link. The page for the "Lady" in question adds that she preferred the milk first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muriel_Bristol

This makes sense, given some slightly more recent research into the "denatured proteins" hypothesis - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/25/science.higheredu...

Orwell was not right in everything, it seems.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#48

Post by lynx23 »

I_complete_me wrote: post #12
bartislartfast wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tea drinking in Ireland is a big part of the culture, and we have a lot of unwritten rules around it. I'm sure other irish HN'ers will jump in here and add to the list, but off the top of my head - if you don't offer someone tea when they come to visit, you are rude. if they refuse, and you accept their first offer without insisting, that's also rude. you have to persist a bit. this was parodied in the TV show "Fathe…

Two points: It's important to note whether the milk goes in the tea first or the tea first and then the milk. When the host is serving the tea, if the milk goes in first, then the host is admitting that they have inferior (non-china) cups, since china cups are more robust and can withstand the sudden heat shock. However, I have never had tea from a china cup so I can't possibly say. When making hay in the summer time…

How bad must the cups actually be for this story to have any relevance at all? In the 40 years that I have been drinking tea and other drinks that go into a cup, I have never witnessed one breaking because of hot water, never.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#49

Post by thomasjb »

bartislartfast wrote: post #3
mock-possum wrote: post #2

It’s pretty bonkers how far out of their way humans will go to make things more difficult. Like it can’t just be drinking tea, it has to have vast sweeping sociological implications. Human beings are so very very extra.

Tea drinking in Ireland is a big part of the culture, and we have a lot of unwritten rules around it. I'm sure other irish HN'ers will jump in here and add to the list, but off the top of my head - if you don't offer someone tea when they come to visit, you are rude. if they refuse, and you accept their first offer without insisting, that's also rude. you have to persist a bit. this was parodied in the TV show "Fathe…

You're leaving out those of us with loyalty to Thompson's Punjana, otherwise, entirely accurate.

Re: The dangers of tea drinking in nineteenth century Ireland

#50

Post by trabant00 »

It makes perfect sense to me given the context. Upper class women had time and money to spare on social gatherings and tea, ate copious meals and then tea could help with digestion (they thought at the time). While the poor women of course had none of those.

Would you be upset if somebody would recommend now that lower socio-economic classes should try to imitate the time and money spending of upper ones?

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