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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#621

Post by tfourb »

nprateem wrote: post #565
nicbou wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would extend a prisoner’s punishment beyond their sentence. The goal of incarceration is to reform, not take revenge. That’s if all goes well and the system is not motivated by perverse incentives or overwhelmingly targeting a specific group of prisoners (like the poorer ones) with a deal they can’t really refuse.

But the system in many countries doesn't work, otherwise there wouldn't be high rates of reoffending. This isn't about revenge - if that were the case I'd be advocating forced sterilisation, which I'm not. Other concerns are implementation questions, regarding ethics, safeguards, informed consent, etc. The alternative would be to treat prisoners as victims of their upbringing, but that raises questions about the degr…

There have been projects in Western Africa that have shown that cognitive behavioral therapy can markedly increase social integration and reduce violence of even former child soldiers, probably the most traumatized demographic you can think of. Even pedophiles can - with sufficient support and therapy - manage their urges, as can alcoholics, etc. The hard truth is that the U.S. prison system is making no effort whatsoever at reintegration/therapy and instead is designed to enhance traumatization.

I actually think that sterilization is an incredibly important tool in terms of family planning and should be offered for free to all interested and consenting adults. But prison is probably the worst place to offer it, because (especially in the U.S) it is a place of coercion that precludes meaningful consent for a non-reversible non-life-saving medical intervention. Like other attempts to use sterilization to solve social problems throughout history, it would just contribute to trauma under these circumstances, not alleviate it.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#622

Post by ajsnigrutin »

93po wrote: post #260

I'm mid 30s now and my childhood is full of instances of me being treated with contempt for being a boy by my teachers and female peers. Like, outright mocking in ways by teachers that in retrospect I would consider nearly traumatic and abusive. Maybe public, unashamed contempt is more recent?

I live in a small EU country, and at our largest universitey, there are ~50 more women enrolled than men (60-40 ratio). Does it bother anyone? Of course not... they are more worried why in a few colleges (engineering mostly) ther are still more men than women and try to encourage more women to go there.

Education (and a lot of other parts of society) has(ve) left men behind, and it starts in the childhood and never stops.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#623

Post by 34679 »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #415
dayvid wrote: post #394

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge. To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The mai…

While I agree with your take about society, I disagree that boys have less space to be boys. Boys will be boys, no matter what the world does. There will never be a shortage of boys who want to throw rocks and jump in mud until their feet get stuck.

Boys that "act like boys", (throwing rocks, etc) are given Adderall. Parents that refuse end up talking to child services.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#624

Post by jmopp »

anon291 wrote: post #382
underlipton wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without evidence, I'll suggest that this is an oversimplification. In a model where boys require masculine modeling from older, adult figures, "absent fathers" are most an issue when a boy's regularly-accessible social unit has been whittled down to the nuclear family. That seems to be a crisis in-and-of-itself. When I look at socially-successful men, they often have had multiple older men in their lives to model the…

There is no such thing as an extended family unless there are strong nuclear families to begin with. this concept is lost on so many people... But it's simply easier to raise your kids with their grandparents aunts and uncles if grandma and grandpa had a good relationship and aren't divorce to begin with. Divorce is ultimately at the root of so many social ills but it's verboten to even mention

> There is no such thing as an extended family unless there are strong nuclear families to begin with.

I disagree on that point. It takes a village to raise a child, and a large enough extended family has space for all sorts. Not everyone is called to the married life: I agree that divorce is a problem, but divorce rates would go down quite a bit if those for whom marriage is not compatible with their personality didn't get married in the first place, and there was a space for them to thrive within the family/community.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#625

Post by raxxorraxor »

marcod wrote: post #464
mc3301 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be surprised to learn that there is something similar in Japan? Though not necessarily required, there are "mama papa" classes done by the government with the basics covered. And there are checkups (1 month, 3 months, 6, 1 year, 2, 3) which have some involvement in checking the child's health, wellbeing, development, as well as that of the parent(s).

Plenty of parents in America have taken classes like that at local hospitals or through their school, but the reality is that a lot of people don't have the means and the desire to take some.

And usually those that take the classes would have done fine anyway since they are engaged in parenting. I am critical of a governmental breeding licence, even if it is just for additional monetary support. Difficult to quantify anything that reflects successful parenting and the bureaucracy would probably be counter productive. Stressed parents are often bad parents, you don't want to make it worse with audits.

Also, as someone not from the US who heard unsubstantiated rumors about parents getting in trouble with law enforcement for leaving their kids alone for 5 minutes, I doubt this could in any way be sensibly handled. Similar problem exist in other countries too of course.

Best make room in school for some basic education, as there isn't any in most countries.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#626

Post by davidguetta »

_xnmw wrote: post #593

OK, this is going to sound extremely controversial, but as a person who lived for many years in three different worlds: 1. The Western world (born/raised/educated in Canada) 2. The Arab world (lived for years in Jordan, have Muslim/Arab roots) 3. Eastern Europe (currently living in Ukraine for many years, now volunteering in the war) My observation is that 1. has an overly effeminate culture and harmfully stifles mas…

Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks interesting tho

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#627

Post by belorn »

nicbou wrote: post #513
Khaine wrote: post #470

What's interesting is that I recently watched The Red Pill Documentary. I recall when it was released that the director, Cassie Jaye a self professed feminist was pilloried absolutely everywhere for giving a voice to Mens Rights Activists. The actual documentary is quite milquetoast. What it is, is her engaging with the ideas around how in some ways men are disadvantaged in modern society. It's fascinating to me that…

That was not my experience. The message was bitterness, and there is a reason their lot is poorly perceived. Try /r/menslib for a healthier discussion that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything.

It wasn't that many years ago people did word bubble (frequencies) of reddit subreddits, and both Feminist and Mens Rights Activists subs was very similar. The most common word in the Feminist one was "Men", and the most common word for Mens Rights Activists was Women". The second most common word was also symmetric, Women in the first and Men in the other.

It is not symmetric to assume that all female equality issues and all male equality issues must be the fault of men. People are human. Faults in human society is from humans, and humans are 50% women and 50% men.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#628

Post by guerrilla »

opportune wrote: post #165
Natsu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact. ... > toxic masculinity Maybe we could make progress by tabooing words that frame being male as a bad thing?

Toxic masculinity is absolutely a thing, think things like refusing to admit you're wrong, being overly aggressive and escalating situations, being overly boastful, being reluctant to show emotions other than anger. A lot of people are just triggered by the term for whatever reason. You could just as easily replace "toxic masculinity" with the word "machismo" if it makes you feel less threatened

> Toxic masculinity is absolutely a thing, think things like refusing to admit you're wrong, being overly aggressive and escalating situations, being overly boastful, being reluctant to show emotions other than anger.

In general, women do all of this all of the time except the last. So you see the problem.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#629

Post by [deleted] »

davidguetta wrote: post #626
_xnmw wrote: post #593

OK, this is going to sound extremely controversial, but as a person who lived for many years in three different worlds: 1. The Western world (born/raised/educated in Canada) 2. The Arab world (lived for years in Jordan, have Muslim/Arab roots) 3. Eastern Europe (currently living in Ukraine for many years, now volunteering in the war) My observation is that 1. has an overly effeminate culture and harmfully stifles mas…

Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks interesting tho

[deleted]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#630

Post by zb3 »

jadamson wrote: post #620
nicbou wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was not my experience. The message was bitterness, and there is a reason their lot is poorly perceived. Try /r/menslib for a healthier discussion that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything.

[flagged]

Does that disqualify their problems? I don't get your sentiment.
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