Live data from Hacker News

Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

wbur.org

561–570 of 1001 posts

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#561
post #394

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge. To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The mai…

Society isn't becoming more effeminate.

Society is losing some of the toxic masculinity because women are achieving leadership positions and have legal remedies available to them when men behave inappropriately. Parents are attempting to intervene appropriately.

Besides, the default state of raising a boy in the United States is to abuse the child.

Feelings? Not valid. Keep them to yourself. (This is how I ended up with depression at age 8 when my folks used me as a pawn in their religious dispute while my sisters sat there, oblivious)

Pain? Not real. And even if it is, don't show weakness. (This is how I ended up with a burst appendix during a wilderness hike in the Boy Scouts)

Your role? Provider. If you aren't providing, why are you even breathing? (This is the cause of a lot of breakups)

Everyone knows that these are more or less true. It's something that should resonate with people regardless of their political affiliation. And every bit of it is emotional abuse. None of it is about "being a man or learning to be a man." There's nothing more dehumanizing for a child than to be told that their thoughts and feelings don't matter and that their reason for living is to work until they can't anymore.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#562
post #519
post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People aren't having enough children. Every extra hurdle is going to reduce the number of people who end up parents. There's 8 billion of us. Reducing the number of (unfit, unwilling, unplanned) parents is a net positive.

Birth rates are plummeting everywhere. I'm with you. We can have fewer people on earth. But, that means 2-ish generations will have to do 2x-the-work per capita while receiving 0.5x the care when they retire. Our social welfare and economic systems are not built to deal with decreasing populations, let alone halving of population every 2 generations. I am approaching 30. I very much feel like the generation that is g…

Most work is unnecessary, bureaucratic and consumerist bs. Still many people are unemployed. Automation is held back by unions who fight for their right to do even the crappiest work, like mining. Inhabitable land is overcrowded. Less people is definitely net positive. Surely the economy might take a hit, cause it requires steady growth, but while that is bullshit in its own, we can still have growing economy with declining workforce, everyone would have to get very wealthy then.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The daylight between instituting a parenting license and eugenics is not very much.

Well there already is eugenic like behavior going on. Partners select for money, tall and handsome. It's just not framed that way. End result is the same.

The media perpetuates certain ideals deemed desirable, the masses follow. You don't need a vegetarian artist somewhere in Europe spewing nonsense. You can still achieve the same thing. I would even go as far to say that modern day advertising and public relations borrowed a lot from Goebbels.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#564
post #548
post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birth rates are plummeting everywhere. I'm with you. We can have fewer people on earth. But, that means 2-ish generations will have to do 2x-the-work per capita while receiving 0.5x the care when they retire. Our social welfare and economic systems are not built to deal with decreasing populations, let alone halving of population every 2 generations. I am approaching 30. I very much feel like the generation that is g…

Look at it from the bright side: you are likely born towards a local maximum in terms of human development. Too late not to notice the decline, but early enough that you aren't likely to suffer too much from it for the best part of your life. Current forecasts put generalized famines, all around the globe, at somewhere between +2.5ºC and +3.0ºC of global warming. We are on track to cross +2.0ºC around 2050, at best 2…

Not to whom you're replying, but as a parent this concerns me for their futures.

It mightn't be my problem, but fuck I'm a bad person if I just drop it on the floor for my kids to pick up - or slip over and die on.

That doesn't seem to be humanity's prevailing trait though...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#565
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This would extend a prisoner’s punishment beyond their sentence. The goal of incarceration is to reform, not take revenge. That’s if all goes well and the system is not motivated by perverse incentives or overwhelmingly targeting a specific group of prisoners (like the poorer ones) with a deal they can’t really refuse.

But the system in many countries doesn't work, otherwise there wouldn't be high rates of reoffending. This isn't about revenge - if that were the case I'd be advocating forced sterilisation, which I'm not. Other concerns are implementation questions, regarding ethics, safeguards, informed consent, etc.

The alternative would be to treat prisoners as victims of their upbringing, but that raises questions about the degree to which it's possible to reverse someone's early emotional trauma. For some crimes (e.g. drug addiction) that may be a better approach, as seen in more progressive countries like Portugal.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#566
post #464
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be surprised to learn that there is something similar in Japan? Though not necessarily required, there are "mama papa" classes done by the government with the basics covered. And there are checkups (1 month, 3 months, 6, 1 year, 2, 3) which have some involvement in checking the child's health, wellbeing, development, as well as that of the parent(s).

Plenty of parents in America have taken classes like that at local hospitals or through their school, but the reality is that a lot of people don't have the means and the desire to take some.

If we wanted to incentivize attendance, pay parents to attend the classes, with a bonus at the end for doing well on the test.

That we wouldn't actually do that speaks spades about our priorities.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#567
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm frequently told that I have no right to treat my own depression with mushrooms What a bizarre thing for them to say. In my experience, psilocybin mushrooms are absolutely amazing for mental health. I think that everyone should take mushrooms at least once a year to clear out the cobwebs.

They saved my life, I'm still depressed, but I don't want to die (still don't care too much if I do, but little steps). There's not a single conversation that I've had where my subjective experience has been relevant to the other person's opinion or position, both with family members and medical professionals. Casually discounting my internal understanding and experience in conversations pertaining to the internal em…

I hear you. SSRI side effects are frustrating. Don't let anyone give you flack for medicating with mushrooms. Don't even bother explaining it to them if they don't just get it.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#568

In the nineties I joined a men's group retreat where we circled up and listened to each other's struggles, gave lots of support, and lots of hugs. Then we did some consciousness raising around circumcision and it's barbarity. We took our cue from the Feminist movement. They were getting their shit together and so could we. Gary Snyder read his gorgeous nature poetry, Peter Berg sold us on a green cities concept that…

According to this article[1] from mother jones Warren Farrell is considered to be the founder back in the 80s:

"Farrell is widely considered to be the father of the men’s rights movement. In a series of books published since the 1980s, he has made the case that the primary victims of gender-based discrimination are men—casualties of a society that relies on their sacrifices while ignoring their suffering. He blames this phenomenon for a litany of woes, from the plight of blue-collar workers to the state of veterans’ health care and rising suicide rates among young men. Many of today’s men’s rights activists view Farrell’s 1993 book, The Myth of Male Power: Why Men Are the Disposable Sex, as their touchstone, and the online forums where they congregate are steeped in Farrell’s ideas"

[1] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/warren-farrell-...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#569
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They saved my life, I'm still depressed, but I don't want to die (still don't care too much if I do, but little steps). There's not a single conversation that I've had where my subjective experience has been relevant to the other person's opinion or position, both with family members and medical professionals. Casually discounting my internal understanding and experience in conversations pertaining to the internal em…

I hear you. SSRI side effects are frustrating. Don't let anyone give you flack for medicating with mushrooms. Don't even bother explaining it to them if they don't just get it.

I've long since stopped giving a shit about other people's opinions, in that and many other regards.

But depending on illegal seasonal mushrooms is far from ideal (even if a single dose is three to four months worth of treatment).

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Punching up" is still punching. While men are on average more privileged than women, being a man also has disadvantages, and many individual men are actually quite vulnerable. "Punching up" at men causes real harm. Please don't make excuses for misandry.

It's not even punching up. For every one woman who commits suicide, four men will follow her to the grave the same way. More women claim to be lonely than men... my hypothesis is that women actually talk about being lonely while men just kill themselves at a certain point.

Women actually talk about being lonely - yes, and men don't, and definitely not to other men, because talking about problems is weak and feminine.
Post reply on HN