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XML is the future

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Re: XML is the future

#121

Post by gottlobflegel »

otherme123 wrote: post #66
pyeri wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call XML entirely a hype or FOMO, it has become part of what we call the modern web even today. 1. The very language that websites are written in today (HTML5/XHTML) are nothing but XML dialects. 2. React's JXS language which many sites use today is also an XML dialect. 3. RSS and ATOM standards used to publish your blog or website feeds are XML standards. 4. JSON replaced XML only as an efficient transpor…

Rss/Atom feels like a case of Querty keyboard. https://www.jsonfeed.org/ would be a better choice, but only a few readers implement it, and a lot of frameworks has Rss/Atom by default with a click. As you explain in (4), Xml makes sense for complex data, but feeds are basically in their final version.

I really find it interesting that some people consider working with xml such a pain that they develop a whole new standard with the sole raison d'être being "It's not xml"

Re: XML is the future

#122

Post by 77pt77 »

bawolff wrote: post #95
preommr wrote: post #30

It's easy to just mark XML off as one of the many fads in tech given how many there are. But I think it's much more worthwile to dive into the particulars of why it failed. While they're all fads, some of them share commonalities that, in hindsight, I think we can say were major catylsts to their downfall. With XML, it failed because something like JSON was much simpler. Time and time again I see people saying that j…

> The XML ecosystem with things like XSLT, Xquery,etc, were elegant, but also overengineered and clunk Hell those were the better XML standards. Just consider SOAP, SAML (XMLSignature is insane), etc XML just another example that unnecessary complexity is the worst sin in software development

SOAP still has a special place in my heart where only hate exists.

Re: XML is the future

#123

Post by trabant00 »

True but unavoidable for an industry as young as ours. We'll explore every nook and cranny for possible solutions before settling on slowly evolving proven tools. And that will take generations. More than 10 IMHO, so by the time the complaints from the article will be obsolete our bones will also be dust.

We're in the gold rush phase of IT and will endure everything that comes with it: hype cycles, snake-oil, depressions, shady and downright criminal activity, lots of stress, etc.

Re: XML is the future

#124

Post by laeri »

deaddodo wrote: post #46
rqtwteye wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad thing is that in many cases working on such a system is a career killer. Nobody wants to hire you. Some years ago a colleague and I realized that our company wouldn’t hire us judging from the job descriptions because we worked on systems that had been working for years but weren’t shiny. Since then I always something new to every project. Not because it makes sense but because it’s good for the resume. Other…

It's not a career killer, it's a specialization. Focusing on nodeJS JS/TS frontend+backend stacks will equally disqualify you from .NET/Spring shops (against an equally qualified applicant, at least). The same goes for making the switch to gamedev or systems dev from many years webdev (you can do it, but you'll probably be dropping back down to a Jr or Mid-level IC position), going from COBOL/Erlang/Rust to another s…

You are right that this is specialization but it still is a career killer in the case that you specialize on a completely obscure technology which will not help in your future career.

Re: XML is the future

#125

Post by yread »

preommr wrote: post #30

It's easy to just mark XML off as one of the many fads in tech given how many there are. But I think it's much more worthwile to dive into the particulars of why it failed. While they're all fads, some of them share commonalities that, in hindsight, I think we can say were major catylsts to their downfall. With XML, it failed because something like JSON was much simpler. Time and time again I see people saying that j…

I still can't believe that we (as a profession) kinda traded away schemas, namespaces, comments, sanity and well defined dates basically because some kids were too cool to write out closing tags. My early 20s teammate now closes blocks with } //for in his JS. That's even worse than XML!

Re: XML is the future

#126

Post by CJefferson »

gnulinux wrote: post #7

I've been working in the tech industry in the US for about 5 years. Ever since I knew myself I've been coding. From middle school to high school, given any problem, like Sudoku, or keeping up daily chores, my solution was Programming! Programming wasy homebase. Then I studied it in uni, thought I was kinda good at it, and loved it. But when I started working in the industry, I realized that it's absolutely exhausting…

I'm constantly sad there isn't any good writing on this topic.

Does anyone have any suggestions on anything to help me keep up with the basics of new fads?

I would love a monthly (doesn't have to be exactly monthly, but the point is occasional) magazine, which was the equivalent of those old magazine with basic tutorials, which would give overviews, and comparisions, of all the various modern techs floating around.

I do occasionally find a new person's blog to subscribe to, but I've never found a good general source.

Re: XML is the future

#127

Post by gostsamo »

noduerme wrote: post #82
gostsamo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a company which sells code and we are a counter example. We make gradual changes in the development stack and processes, every change needs a reason, and even though some changes are necessary, they will not be implemented soon. Some possible factors are that the company is not that big and we have a feature list to deliver. We are not VC, so we cannot afford to burn money. The devs churn is low, so we don…

Hah. That sounds like my dream job. A software company that's not controlled by VC, not burning money, actually shipping a product, and (presumably?) turning a profit... that's an actual unicorn these days...

Profitable to the best of my knowledge. Not sure if the initial investment has been returned yet, but moving in that direction.

Re: XML is the future

#128

Post by wizofaus »

Kwpolska wrote: post #84
eduction wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I think it's much more worthwile to dive into the particulars of why it failed If you’re going to deep dive, define your terms: what did it fail at? At being the future? Kind of a straw man, even if some people did argue that. As a document interchange format? Between RSS — including podcasts! — Microsoft Office, and LibreOffice it seems to have done reasonably well. As a data interchange format? Undoubtedly JSO…

The X in AJAX is there because the devs had to put it in MSXML, because they couldn't add it to IE itself due to a code freeze, and because XML sounded cool back then. https://web.archive.org/web/20170424220609/http://www.alexho... While there probably were some pages using XML in AJAX, many were just sending HTML fragments.

> This was the good-old-days when critical features were crammed in just days before a release

Fascinating article, but really? I would have thought "cramming in" critical features days before release was more common these days, esp. if you're releasing/deploying to production on a daily (or even multiple-times-a-day) basis.

Re: XML is the future

#129

Post by makeitdouble »

gnulinux wrote: post #7

I've been working in the tech industry in the US for about 5 years. Ever since I knew myself I've been coding. From middle school to high school, given any problem, like Sudoku, or keeping up daily chores, my solution was Programming! Programming wasy homebase. Then I studied it in uni, thought I was kinda good at it, and loved it. But when I started working in the industry, I realized that it's absolutely exhausting…

To give another perspective, at my first job deploying meant sshing into production and execute a make script. It worked 98% of the time, and you'd be having fun the 2% else. It sure wasn't the state of the art, but wasn't something people would yell at you for.

We needed windows machine because of corporate policy and remoted into a Solaris box to dev, as a vague replica of production.

Fast forward to today, and we can run a production replica on our local machines at home, the CPU architectures aren't even the same, and code will be deployed through the CI automatically after the tests all pass.

Sure not all changes are meaningful, but in the grand scheme of things the field is moving forward in spades. I certainly wouldn't want to go back a few decades.

Re: XML is the future

#130

Post by Blaiz0r »

mcv wrote: post #117
gnulinux wrote: post #7

I've been working in the tech industry in the US for about 5 years. Ever since I knew myself I've been coding. From middle school to high school, given any problem, like Sudoku, or keeping up daily chores, my solution was Programming! Programming wasy homebase. Then I studied it in uni, thought I was kinda good at it, and loved it. But when I started working in the industry, I realized that it's absolutely exhausting…

Yeah, you can't jump on every hype. I started in web dev almost 20 years ago (did some Visual C++ before that). First job was everything XML. We had our open source CMS that stored all documents as XML and used XSLT to transform it into the HTML we needed. Was pretty cool, but there's always something that didn't fit that paradigm. Some coworkers went a bit overboard and used XSLT to generate the XSLT to create the H…

Microservices are more an organisational thing than a recommended pattern, when a project grows and wants to hire more staff to increase its bandwidth then microservices are a great way to support that, the additional benefit is that they work great in a CI/CD setup so you can release seamlessly.

GraphQL from what I can tell supports web developers rewriting their APIs when they need to instead of waiting on back-end teams to support them.

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