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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#511

Post by bavell »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #415
dayvid wrote: post #394

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge. To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The mai…

While I agree with your take about society, I disagree that boys have less space to be boys. Boys will be boys, no matter what the world does. There will never be a shortage of boys who want to throw rocks and jump in mud until their feet get stuck.

This is so far off the mark I don't even know where to begin...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#512

Post by BlargMcLarg »

yarg wrote: post #457
paulddraper wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tribalism. Black and white. Lack of nuance. Masculinity can be wholesome or toxic. Femininity can be wholesome or toxic. Which one is discussed more, by a literal order of magnitude? [1] [1] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Toxic%20ma...

I think part of the issue is that through our success we erased a lot of the need for the most fundamental male roles. When it came to handling the things that go bump in the night, a social species with thumbs, a bit of fire and a few sharpened sticks went a hell of a long way. And after bumping back for long enough, we were the only monsters left standing. I think that one of the problems with toxic feminity is tha…

We haven't removed the need. You take away a majority of men from the workforce, society would collapse overnight. Same can't be said for women, even if it would be disastrous both short and long term.

What happened was the government has successfully co-opted the social contract between men and women so women now can reap most of its benefits while men carry most of the risks. That doesn't make things all hunky-dory for women, but it certainly doesn't do men a whole lot of good when some of their biggest assets in a relationship are stripped away and redistributed, without accommodating that in some form.

Meanwhile, society has done very little to put men in a positive light or encourage women to accept the 'new man'. If anything, it has done the opposite: women seem to respect men less than before, and men are expected to be more competitive than ever before, even on aspects which are practically immutable. Now society is slowly showing signs of how dysfunctional things become when men aren't incentivized to be men, while women aren't taught to respect the 'new man'. The men quit trying, the boys get stressed out, and the women run around asking the government to fix it somehow. Virtually no one is happy, and Socrates is rolling in his grave.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#513

Post by nicbou »

Khaine wrote: post #470

What's interesting is that I recently watched The Red Pill Documentary. I recall when it was released that the director, Cassie Jaye a self professed feminist was pilloried absolutely everywhere for giving a voice to Mens Rights Activists. The actual documentary is quite milquetoast. What it is, is her engaging with the ideas around how in some ways men are disadvantaged in modern society. It's fascinating to me that…

That was not my experience. The message was bitterness, and there is a reason their lot is poorly perceived.

Try /r/menslib for a healthier discussion that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#514

Post by gizmo »

nprateem wrote: post #489
noname2021 wrote: post #444

Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…

[flagged]

You mention downvotes which suggests you understand forced/incentivized sterilization has a sordid history of eugenics. Yet, you make no effort to explain why your proposal isn’t eugenicist.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#516

Post by esarbe »

zo1 wrote: post #506
nprateem wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Rather than sterilizing people, I've often thought that maybe we should rather have things like means-testing. Originally it was more in the context of not letting poor kids suffer, but perhaps we expand it to make sure kids will have a healthy and safe and loved childhood. There is something very visceral that comes out of people when you suggest that procreation should perhaps not be a universal right. And don't ge…

How about means-providing instead?

Poverty is not a choice but dictated by economic circumstances. If you want to "fix" humanity, it's not by taking away a universal right from humans, but by making sure that their needs are are taken care of.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#517

Post by wrp »

arp242 wrote: post #309
wrp wrote: post #192

[flagged]

https://scribe.rip/s/powertrip/metoo-will-not-survive-unless...

Thank you for the reference. I had not read about this before. The rapid cancelling leaves me wondering whether it's because people think it's irrelevant to the topic at hand or just don't accept that not only men's behavior needs discussion.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#518

Post by nicbou »

dayvid wrote: post #394

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge. To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The mai…

What does it mean to learn to be men?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#519

Post by screye »

oblio wrote: post #497
screye wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't having enough children. Every extra hurdle is going to reduce the number of people who end up parents. > Potentially break the cycles of bad parenting You can't break cycles of bad parenting, because they are 2nd order effects of cycles of trauma. And cycles of trauma have been a fundamental part of human civilization since we've existed. We absolutely should teach compassion, good parenting 101s and ba…

> People aren't having enough children. Every extra hurdle is going to reduce the number of people who end up parents. There's 8 billion of us. Reducing the number of (unfit, unwilling, unplanned) parents is a net positive.

Birth rates are plummeting everywhere.

I'm with you. We can have fewer people on earth. But, that means 2-ish generations will have to do 2x-the-work per capita while receiving 0.5x the care when they retire. Our social welfare and economic systems are not built to deal with decreasing populations, let alone halving of population every 2 generations.

I am approaching 30. I very much feel like the generation that is going to pay for a comfortable retirement for boomers, never be able to afford real estate, pay huge amounts to raise kids and get nothing in return. Because, by the time I retire, the work-force will have halved. If even fewer people have kids, society will find itself staring at collapse.

The definition of 'good parenting' has changed rapidly over the last few decades and it is going to keep changing. As of now, it seems like an impossible bar to reach. It's better to expect just 'slightly less worse' from each generation, and let the momentum carry it forward.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#520

Post by guerrilla »

nicbou wrote: post #513
Khaine wrote: post #470

What's interesting is that I recently watched The Red Pill Documentary. I recall when it was released that the director, Cassie Jaye a self professed feminist was pilloried absolutely everywhere for giving a voice to Mens Rights Activists. The actual documentary is quite milquetoast. What it is, is her engaging with the ideas around how in some ways men are disadvantaged in modern society. It's fascinating to me that…

That was not my experience. The message was bitterness, and there is a reason their lot is poorly perceived. Try /r/menslib for a healthier discussion that isn’t centred around blaming women for everything.

They mean the message of the movie not the community.
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