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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#391

Post by PakG1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
jl6 wrote: post #11

> New research shows that when fathers are present and emotionally invested in children’s lives, they are more likely to develop a stronger sense of self-worth and excel in everything from school to relationships. Regardless of the debate on how tough (or not) love should be, the absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful that we should be trying to address.

> absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful There is a general corruption of the concept of masculinity in American culture. It’s similar to what’s happened to the symbol of the American flag, but more insidious. When I say masculinity, or masculine values, what do you think of? When you think of someone who values their masculinity, who do you perceive? Now do the same for femininity. Which mo…

When I think of masculinity, I see positive and negative aspects of it. I also see that tribes tend to zero in on only the positive or negative. I see the same thing happening with femininity. For whatever reason, the people who zero in on the positivity of one tend to zero in on the negativity of the other, at least on social media. I'm not sure why this is.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#392

Post by [deleted] »

version_five wrote: post #103

This sounds like they're not really taking into account boys needs, with the idea that we shouldn't be "gendered" when relating to them. This made me think of Andrew Tate, who is a douchebag, but has a huge following with young men, apparently because he has found a way to appeal to them emotionally. Anyone who is looking at how to push boys in the right direction should look at what appeals to them and meet them whe…

[deleted]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#393

Post by paulddraper »

PakG1 wrote: post #391
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful There is a general corruption of the concept of masculinity in American culture. It’s similar to what’s happened to the symbol of the American flag, but more insidious. When I say masculinity, or masculine values, what do you think of? When you think of someone who values their masculinity, who do you perceive? Now do the same for femininity. Which mo…

When I think of masculinity, I see positive and negative aspects of it. I also see that tribes tend to zero in on only the positive or negative. I see the same thing happening with femininity. For whatever reason, the people who zero in on the positivity of one tend to zero in on the negativity of the other, at least on social media. I'm not sure why this is.

Tribalism. Black and white. Lack of nuance.

Masculinity can be wholesome or toxic.

Femininity can be wholesome or toxic.

Which one is discussed more, by a literal order of magnitude? [1]

[1] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Toxic%20ma...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#394

Post by dayvid »

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge.

To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The main options seem to be Boy Scouts, martial arts classes, military, frats, father/older friends etc. or your out of luck and looking up to online grifters.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#395

Post by ryanwaggoner »

hgs3 wrote: post #368

Kids in general are neglected because having a stay at home parent has become a financial luxury. Kids used to grow up with a parent present, now they grow up watching TikTok until their parents come home. This is a real problem that no one wants to talk about it.

Lots of people talk about this. They’ve been talking about it for decades. Three or four decades ago, when I was a kid, we even had a name for it: latchkey kid.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#396

Post by Natsu »

seattle_spring wrote: post #101
motohagiography wrote: post #75

We don't need a critical theory of boyhood, we just need to stop institutionally empowering people who hate their dads. I know many good men, and the defining characteristic of every single one of them is that regardless of who their father was, they accept him, and by extension they accept themselves. If you are still mad at him or have contempt for him, I recommend considering how it's manifesting in your beliefs a…

Err… what? So people with abusive or absent dads should just forgive and love them?

Dad murdered mom when I was 15, so I have some experience here. I haven't seen him since I testified against him.

But... I don't let that define my life. I miss mom, and I always will, but I made peace with it and have moved on. You can't just spend your life sobbing into a pillow or grinding my teeth in rage, at some point you have to go back to just living again.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#397

Post by vinyl7 »

dayvid wrote: post #394

I spent a summer teaching at a high school with separate gender classrooms. One thing that stuck out was that the women were motivated from hearing them out and how they felt first and men were motivated by giving them a challenge. To some extent, society is becoming more effeminate. This is a good thing in giving more opportunity for women, but there seems to be less space for men to grow or learn to be men. The mai…

Unfortunately Boy Scouts was commandeered by women and now allow girls to participate. So it's no longer a place for boys to be boys.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#398

Post by anon291 »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #97
KptMarchewa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think millions of gym rats are thinking something different? I think it's weird that you present this as feminine problem when it's men who on average participate in more sports.

Surprised to see this downvoted. Both men and women are told that their bodies are wrong. Maybe using different words, but still. That said, gym and sports (typically recommended to men) seem healthier to me than starving (typically recommended to women).

Ummm... If you think men are turning to gym and sports to get some of the male bodies being portrayed in media, then I have news for you.

A large portion of young men are turning to steroids and fake hormones in addition to insane diets to achieve those bodies. Look at pictures of strong men or body builders from the early 20th century. The look nothing like the six packed gym bro we're all supposed to look like.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#399

Post by at_a_remove »

pyuser583 wrote: post #118
underlipton wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without evidence, I'll suggest that this is an oversimplification. In a model where boys require masculine modeling from older, adult figures, "absent fathers" are most an issue when a boy's regularly-accessible social unit has been whittled down to the nuclear family. That seems to be a crisis in-and-of-itself. When I look at socially-successful men, they often have had multiple older men in their lives to model the…

It isn’t either/or. It’s cumulative. Joseph Campbell emphasized the idea of the “second father.” A mentor who takes a young man further than his father can. A father has to love you, but the second fathers love has to be earned. Think NCOs in the military, coaches, sensais in martial arts. We aren’t just missing fathers, we’re missing second fathers. Not many people would describe a gunny sergeant, or football coach,…

I wholly agree with "second fathers."

I am Gen X, and I think one of the social institutions which has quietly vanished before I could quite get to it was the old Roman concept of "patronage." Without understanding I was doing it until embarrassingly late, I spent a lot of time looking for those second fathers, the mentors, the patrons. What broke it for me was someone who was clearly suited for the role, and had benefited from it himself, but was simply too self-involved to pay it forward, as it were. I realized that the Boomers as a trend just weren't thinking patronage or even the idea of planting trees they wouldn't see grown.

So, no mentors for me. Nor am I, sadly, in the position to be much of one myself. I can at last see myself doing it and cut that off at the pass.

If the "wrong" groups have something to offer in the way of second fathers, maybe their values aren't as bad as expected. Nobody wants to even consider that. If only The Bad Guys are making sense about some issues, what else might they be correct on?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#400

Post by wonder_er »

My only credibility to make a reliable book recommendation on this topic:

1. Have experienced some of what's discussed

2. Has historically read quite a lot

The following book, and others by the author, have proven to be the most efficient filter for 'compressing' sometimes challenging life experience into something manageable:

'The Tao of Fully Feeling: Harvesting Forgiveness Out of Blame', by Pete Walker.

https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Fully-Feeling-Harvesting-Forgiven...

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