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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#371
All: obviously this topic brings up strong feelings (it does for me too), but if you're posting under the influence of someone's comment provoking you, please wait until that activation subsides before posting. We want curious conversation here, and this thread is veering too much into flamewar.

Please make sure you're up on the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#372

Can somebody define what "emotional support" even is? I have no clue what they are talking about. From reading the article I would say men might need mentors who give them good advice and wisdom. That is what I felt I needed at times, anyway.

The opposite of emotional support is if you're crying, people around you say "don't be a baby." Actual emotional support can take a lot of different forms. I'd say that it includes someone recognising the emotions you're having, not judging them, not stopping you from expressing them, and talking about the emotions afterwards if you're up for it.

The really hard thing is finding the right balance. “Don’t be a baby” isn’t good, but over-compensating too far in the other direction doesn’t do a kid any favors either. There are times when being a good dad can mean (kindly) pushing kids out of their comfort zones or tempering excessive self-pity.

I’m currently trying to teach my 4 year old daughter to swim, so this is very front-of-mind for me. If it was up to her, she would just splash around in the shallowest part by the steps without trying anything she’s afraid of, and she would never learn to swim. It takes gentle but insistent pushing from me to keep making progress. It’s a fine line—when I do it well, she tries new things and has a great time too. If I overdo it, she shuts down and won’t try anything else.

The emotions that make her hesitant are totally valid and natural, and I try to empathize with her and talk about them, but I also can’t overly indulge those feelings, because she needs to learn to push past them in order to gain an essential life skill. It’s tough.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#374
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'd suggest the total opposite: do talk about your feelings, and if she can't handle it then she isn't the right partner for you.

Great as a concept - terrible when it comes to the crushing reality that is the dating market as it is. Average looking men are already dealing with an incredibly challenging dating market. Now you add on that they have higher expectations for their partners behavior - you're going to be completely alone for the rest of your life. I hate to say it but the reality is - you're better off trying to mold/brainwash/train…

are you sure it's a unicorn? i didn't get that impression. i can't remember having a girlfriend that wasn't open to my feelings. of course everyone's sample size is very small, and being your average introvert meant that there weren't so many opportunities to meet someone, and there also may be the idea that women who are not open to a mans feelings would not even be interested in someone like me in the first place. that is to say, a woman who cares about a mans feeling is looking at other qualities, that potentially raise the chances for an average looking man.

so maybe there was some self selection going on rather than intent from my side. but that also counters the idea that it's a unicorn. but there is also a cultural dimension, as i was traveling the world, most people i met did not come from western countries. so maybe they are a unicorn in the western cultures.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All children need fathers Every study I've seen on the subject has said that children of same sex parents, including having two mothers, do as well or better than their peers across any metric of wellbeing or success.

Is the implication instead that children should have two parents? Ie. Sharing the burden, more perspective and the like cause the benefits? If so, given that most children are born of conventional couples, it makes sense to say they should have their father in their life.

The 1st comment said boys need fathers to model masculinity. And there is no advantage to say children need a father and mother if the truth is children need 2 parents. 2 parents covers more cases in fewer words.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#377
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'd suggest the total opposite: do talk about your feelings, and if she can't handle it then she isn't the right partner for you.

Potential partners are one thing. Replacing mothers, sisters, and female family members tends to be more difficult to manage.

yes of course. when it comes to unaccepting family members, the only thing you can do is to stop trying to share your feelings with them

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#378
post #11

> New research shows that when fathers are present and emotionally invested in children’s lives, they are more likely to develop a stronger sense of self-worth and excel in everything from school to relationships. Regardless of the debate on how tough (or not) love should be, the absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful that we should be trying to address.

> absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful There is a general corruption of the concept of masculinity in American culture. It’s similar to what’s happened to the symbol of the American flag, but more insidious. When I say masculinity, or masculine values, what do you think of? When you think of someone who values their masculinity, who do you perceive? Now do the same for femininity. Which mo…

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it depends heavily on the state, but as I understand it, the stats on the mothers getting custody are misleading. Overwhelmingly, the fathers are giving up custody and not fighting for it. When they do, it is roughly equal, though some studies suggest bias one way or the other. I’m not finding great primary sources, but here’s some articles on it https://legaljobs.io/blog/child-custody-statistics/ https://w…

So was parent commenter's experience just that non-representative or is something screwy going on with how the data gets recorded?

Unless GP is a marriage counselor or family-court judge, I am wondering how many anecdotal child custody cases they would have witnessed.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#380

> many young men don’t seek emotional support when they need it because they fear being perceived as weak and ineffective. I would be curious to see a study on what happens to those men who do seek it. As in every last case I anecdotally am aware of, that perception quickly became reality and those men regretted it.

There's a reason that men succeed at suicide a lot more frequently than women. Help is often not an option.

In his excellent review [1] of Nostalgia Critic's idiotic, embarrassing and awful review of The Wall, Dan Olson points out that much of the part of the film that Doug makes fun of is specifically the main character being told to hide/suppress emotion and struggling with that and failing.

In other words, the "satire"'s primary take is basically that men showing feelings is being strictly something to be mocked.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokAtlFGa7Y

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