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How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

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Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#111

Post by flagrant_taco »

xadhominemx wrote: post #54
public_defender wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false choice. There is no reason that safety would require commercial surveillance. Also, why did you put the word tracking in quotation marks?

They put it in quotes because no one is using these data to follow any individual’s life or movements. These days are all aggregated and/or anonymized before any detailed analysis.

How can this days be properly anonymized? Even just knowing where a car is parked every night narrowed it down a good bit in most areas, combiner that with where its parked during work hours and you're almost certainly anonymized.

And yes, the analytics do track vehicle identifiers aren't truly anonymous. Many of the services Onstar offers, for example, wouldn't be possible without taking via unique identifier. The same goes for any vehicle that offers 4G/5G, mobile apps, remote unlocking, etc.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#112

Post by flagrant_taco »

voz_ wrote: post #22
tashoecraft wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s great for you, but there’s been amazing advances in the world of automobile safety in the past 20 years. I’d rather improve my safety chances in an accident than worry about “tracking”.

Agreed. I don’t understand the privacy obsession at the cost of all other comforts and features.

The opposite can be argued too, I don't get the obsession with convenience above all else.

Personally I'd rather know that the government and private corporations can't track everything I do and decide that I should no longer have the right to drive my own car.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#113

Post by vGPU »

javajosh wrote: post #60
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #53

It’s becoming impossible to practice what you preach when it comes to data privacy. ‘Don’t like it, don’t buy it’ is difficult to execute unless you don’t mind not having a car, mobile phone, tv, browse the internet or even go out in a public place. There needs to be regulation and at least the ability to at least easily opt out of any of this insanity, but until there’s one (or probably many) widespread data-breache…

The EU seems to have it's act together. Things in the US won't change until the elites feel that pervasive surveillance impacts them personally and negatively.

Did you miss the story about how spying on journalists is OK?

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#114

Post by flagrant_taco »

falcolas wrote: post #89
blueridge wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/9IU8W I've got an old (2002) car, I love the buttons and knobs. No cameras, no screens, no key fob, no voice control, no electronic "safety" features, no tracking. The 4L straight six engine is still going strong at almost 300,000 miles. What's funny is watching my friends attempt to back out of the driveway or parking lot without a camera and screen. They put it in reverse and their eyes go right…

> At no point do they just throw their arm on the backside of the passenger seat, and turn around to look out the windows while keeping one hand on the wheel. It is as if this movement, this posture, is completely new to them. As a point of reference, Adam and Jamie of Mythbuster fame both had to be trained in this technique. And they’ve probably been driving longer than many of us here have been alive. In other word…

> As a point of reference, Adam and Jamie of Mythbuster fame both had to be trained in this technique. And they’ve probably been driving longer than many of us here have been alive.

If I remember right, didn't they have to be trained how to use this technique in a specific scenario that was effectively stung driving? If be really surprised if they couldn't back out of a parking dodge this way prior to training

> Also, it doesn’t work well in modern vehicles with shorter windows

This is largely by design. Intrusion protection has been prioritized over visibility with cameras filling in the gaps

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#115

Post by vGPU »

flagrant_taco wrote: post #109
foobarbecue wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Before the accident, I would have taken bigger windows over the side-impact bars if I'd been presented with the choice. And now I'm thankful to the regulators for taking away that freedom of choice. Odd.

Honest question - Would you rather have had the knowledge of the pros and cons of different designs, or the lack of freedom of choice when regulators know what's best for you?

Pre-covid, I drove a low slung coupe. My roof was roughly equal in height to most people’s windowsill. I was fine with it.

Post covid, I drive a midsize suv, and am no longer comfortable riding my motorcycle.

What has changed? Simple - the other drivers. I now often witness an accident almost daily. I had a car wipe out in front of me last week. I constantly have drivers blindly merging into my lane.

I don’t know what the long term effects of covid are, but I’m pretty sure they include the removal of awareness that other drivers exist on the road, as well as basic human decency.

I used to joke that when I was driving on the west coast, I’d have to remove my turn signal as I’d have the car behind immediately speed up to cut me off.

Sadly, this has now become the reality here on the east coast also.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#116

Post by flagrant_taco »

vGPU wrote: post #115
flagrant_taco wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - Would you rather have had the knowledge of the pros and cons of different designs, or the lack of freedom of choice when regulators know what's best for you?

Pre-covid, I drove a low slung coupe. My roof was roughly equal in height to most people’s windowsill. I was fine with it. Post covid, I drive a midsize suv, and am no longer comfortable riding my motorcycle. What has changed? Simple - the other drivers. I now often witness an accident almost daily. I had a car wipe out in front of me last week. I constantly have drivers blindly merging into my lane. I don’t know wha…

Do you think those are side effects of covid itself or more related to our pandemic response (lock downs, closing schools, WFH, vaccines, or something else)?

This was pre-pandemic response, but for a few years I drove a Toyota MR2 and had a couple motorcycles. I feel pretty damn lucky to never have seen what would have happened to me wrecking any of those vehicles.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#117

Post by voussoir »

OneLeggedCat wrote: post #64
bnjmn wrote: post #7

Are there any new cars / car brands that credibly promise not to track their drivers? Any car with a network connection for software updates seems likely to be harvesting driver data, or is at least capable of doing so.

Your can pull a fuse (I think it's marked DCM?) in some Toyotas if you don't care about the entertainment/navigation system ever contacting a cell tower again. I pulled the one in my 2021 Tundra.

I pulled a fuse out of my car to disable the onstar module because they were sending me "monthly diagnostic report" emails. I had never made an onstar account, and I even declined the free trial.

If they hadn't sent me those diagnostics I would not have guessed they were tracking me in the first place. Too bad they outed themselves, this time at least :)

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#118

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

MisterTea wrote: post #80
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #53

It’s becoming impossible to practice what you preach when it comes to data privacy. ‘Don’t like it, don’t buy it’ is difficult to execute unless you don’t mind not having a car, mobile phone, tv, browse the internet or even go out in a public place. There needs to be regulation and at least the ability to at least easily opt out of any of this insanity, but until there’s one (or probably many) widespread data-breache…

Remeber the uproar over cameras on phones? Then the fury over a person bringing a google glass into a bathroom. Now people film themselves in the bathroom. No one cares as we live in a very connected world where privacy is almost gone - in fact many people like broadcasting themselves. (To add - I don't like nor endorse it - "computas shoulda stayed hard!" is my motto. But that is reality. Hell, my friends kids ape y…

I’m not sure that your neighbours kids voluntary use of an app versus me not being able to buy a car that won’t track my location are really all that equivalent.

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#119

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

Retric wrote: post #88
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #53

It’s becoming impossible to practice what you preach when it comes to data privacy. ‘Don’t like it, don’t buy it’ is difficult to execute unless you don’t mind not having a car, mobile phone, tv, browse the internet or even go out in a public place. There needs to be regulation and at least the ability to at least easily opt out of any of this insanity, but until there’s one (or probably many) widespread data-breache…

If you don’t want to be tracked then you have to make sacrifices on the scale of not carrying around a cellphone. But that really doesn’t scale. Handing out your customers secrets doesn’t have a big red flag that automatically tells them you’re selling them out. That’s the core issue which has nothing to do with customer choices and why regulation is one of the few ways to give customers informed choices.

Name any major organisation that’s not selling data excluding companies such as signal and (presumably) apple…

Re: How the most popular cars in the US track drivers

#120

Post by WirelessGigabit »

sokoloff wrote: post #5
blueridge wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/9IU8W I've got an old (2002) car, I love the buttons and knobs. No cameras, no screens, no key fob, no voice control, no electronic "safety" features, no tracking. The 4L straight six engine is still going strong at almost 300,000 miles. What's funny is watching my friends attempt to back out of the driveway or parking lot without a camera and screen. They put it in reverse and their eyes go right…

2005 CR-V coming up on 230K miles and still runs like a top. I did add a CarPlay-capable head unit that has a connection for a rear-view camera (which I haven’t gotten and probably won’t). Wireless CarPlay is pretty big usability and modest safety improvement (to have a 7” map display and voice control instead of futzing with a phone to get GPS guidance).

My car has wireless CarPlay, and ONLY wireless. I hate it.

I can not share my data with my wife while I'm connected to CarPlay.

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