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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#341
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Jordan Peterson is doing a decent job at this though, his stance on helping young men is quite similar to Tate's, albeit less delusional.

Jordan Peterson's focus on trans people/fat women instead of men's issues is hella distracting though

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#342
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brene Brown studied it. It does not turn out well for men: > I was not prepared to hear over and over from men how the women — the mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives — in their lives are constantly criticizing them for not being open and vulnerable and intimate, all the while they are standing in front of that cramped wizard closet where their men are huddled inside, adjusting the curtain and making sure no one see…

i'd suggest the total opposite: do talk about your feelings, and if she can't handle it then she isn't the right partner for you.

Great as a concept - terrible when it comes to the crushing reality that is the dating market as it is.

Average looking men are already dealing with an incredibly challenging dating market. Now you add on that they have higher expectations for their partners behavior - you're going to be completely alone for the rest of your life.

I hate to say it but the reality is - you're better off trying to mold/brainwash/train your partner to become more accepting of men's feelings than looking for some unicorn that already accepts them.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#344

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

I've seen multiple women wearing shirts in San Francisco that said something about 'mediocre white men'. I was kind of blown away as I have always been pretty hard left, but it was shocking how blatant racism/sexism if it's targeted at one particular group is almost fashionable.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#345

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

> There's a reason virtually every culture is patriarchal. It's because men are physically stronger than women. That's it. That's all it is.

And more willing to use violence.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#346
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the link with the flag. Can you explain?

Many (mostly to the left of center) increasingly associate it with far-right nationalist groups, Trump supporters, or any group considered undesirable. As a result, the flag is gaining an undeserved negative connotation in the same way that masculinity has.

To be fair, many right of center groups presume liberals can’t be patriots and that any display of the American flag is a tacit endorsement of far right ideals (which is of course nonsense).

That the US flag is routinely desecrated by reactionary conservatives up to and including police departments in the form of thin blue line, punisher flags, Molon labe lapels etc to explicitly advertise anti-American ideals seems at least as likely to be the cause of growing anti-flag feelings as any liberal agenda.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#347

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

> There's a reason virtually every culture is patriarchal. It's because men are physically stronger than women. That's it. That's all it is.

But the physically strongest man is rarely the leader of a culture.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#348

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

I've seen multiple women wearing shirts in San Francisco that said something about 'mediocre white men'. I was kind of blown away as I have always been pretty hard left, but it was shocking how blatant racism/sexism if it's targeted at one particular group is almost fashionable.

[flagged]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#349

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

> There's a reason virtually every culture is patriarchal. It's because men are physically stronger than women. That's it. That's all it is.

It’s probably less the strength and more the fact that before contraception women would be pregnant a substantial amount of the time. Hard to be engaged in the world when you’re having to do a bunch of pre-scientific rituals to try and ensure a safe and healthy birth a lot of the time.

But that doesn’t really mean they weren’t involved in decision making, it just means they aren’t involved in the sorts of places where people will write any of it down for posterity.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it that way. You've fallen for a tu quoque fallacy. To say that Cosby was hypocritical doesn't seem to devalue the merits of his message: that men need to step up, that fathers need to stop being absent, take some responsibility for the dignity of women and children. If anything, it makes it even more poignant. Haven't you ever seen a man in prison, pleading with his son not to turn out like him? Does the…

True, even slyzz ball can be have good argument. However, the problem about Cosby, and the general "men need to step up" crowd is that frame the issue of absent father as a moral and character issues. Never going deeper to understand if there were external constraints pushing those men out. We shouldn't completly alleviate those absent father from any responsibilities for their choice, but we should also look at the…

> We shouldn't completly alleviate those absent father from any responsibilities for their choice, but we should also look at the cause and condition making those choices so prevalent.

I'm much more involved in my children's day-to-day lives than my father was in mine.

But I'm a software engineer who has worked from home full-time for the last 7+ years. Yes I lock my office door for several hours a day, but I'll pop out every now and again and say hello, it is easy for me to do school drop-offs/pick-ups sometimes, or take them to appointments. My commute is zero, so as soon as I'm done for the day, I'm there for them.

My father spent most of his career as a manager/executive in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. You can't manage a manufacturing line without physically being there to respond when things go wrong. Before that, he also worked as a manager of analytical chemistry laboratories, and you can't really do that remotely either. Even when he got senior enough that he didn't physically have to be there all the time, he told me that if all the people under him had to be there physically, from a workplace politics viewpoint, he had too as well. At one manufacturing plant he was managing a few years ago, the IT staff were demanding to work from home, but he was pushing back against their demand, because he was worried about how it would look to the manufacturing staff for whom that couldn't be an option.

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