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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think millions of gym rats are thinking something different? I think it's weird that you present this as feminine problem when it's men who on average participate in more sports.

Surprised to see this downvoted. Both men and women are told that their bodies are wrong. Maybe using different words, but still. That said, gym and sports (typically recommended to men) seem healthier to me than starving (typically recommended to women).

Orthorexia can actually be pretty damn harmful as well.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#202
post #90

As a black guy I don't remember a friend ever saying "black people suck" to my face. But I've heard people I'm close with, both women and men, say that "men suck" countless times. I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact.

[flagged]

Yuri Besmenov. I think he was being truthful in his descriptions all those years back, seems like it came to fruition quite nicely. I would have loved to have seen more interviews with him, say, each decade, and see how the climate at the time was filtered through his lense.

> By offering its education institutions large grants if they agree to hire the right ideologists.

Are you referring to the "Thousand Currents" program? Now referred to as United Front Work Program?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#203
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly. I let this kind of thing slide because obviously the problems facing minorities/women as groups are far worse than the problems facing men as a group, but just shifting the conversation from "I think group A of people is the problem" to "I think group B of people is the problem" is creating downstream problems. And there are very real issues facing men - suicide rates are dramatic enough to indicate tha…

What makes you say the problems facing people other than man are far worse? I'm genuinely curious, because often conversation around these topics will go along the lines of "well, women have to worry about getting beaten up" (or (sexually) assaulted, etc), but men have problems too! The above attitude I feel like minimises men's problems - the implicit assumption is that everyone else has it worse, whether that attit…

I don't wanna get into a whole thing, but if you stop to think for maybe 10 seconds, you'd realize that the problems women face (physically, socially, economically ,etc) are incomparably worse than what men face.

- How about the fact that in some countries women can't even show their hair, have the right to drive or vote?

- How about the fact that women are several times more likely to be sexually assaulted?

- How about the fact that women have to worry about potential unwanted pregnancy?

- How about the fact that abortion laws are being repealed across the United States?

- How about the glass ceiling and the fact that women are paid less for the same jobs across many industries?

That's not to say that men don't have their own challenges as well, but it's borderline delusional if you think that men and women face the same level of challenges.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misandry is normalized in society. Whenever you encounter a baseless attack on men just reverse the roles and you'll realize that there'd be pitchforks for treating women as anything other than paragons of virtue. Entire entertainment genres are built around portraying men as inept fools who can be looked down upon by the opposite sex. Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the me…

As a man I've never understood this complaint. Sure, it's a sitcom cliche to always have the bumbling dad and the competent mom who is usually also wildly out of his league, but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about (it is boring writing, but that's a different problem). Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works better because it can be seen…

> but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about

I would venture to guess that's because you are not in the socio-economical bracket where this is not just something you see on TV but become how people actually treat you.

In my arm-chair and widely unqualified perspective, the life experience of men is very very bi-modal. A select few with whatever the characteristic du-jour are can have such a different experience that it become harder to related to the less fortunate.

> Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works

About the same remark, traditionally, the most the people with the most power were/are men, doesn't follow that most men have power or that even that the average men have more power than the average women. The distribution of power/social status is usually very skewed for men.

> because it can be seen as both a way of balancing the scales a bit

Two wrong doesn't make a right , and the sin of the father do not belong to the sons. The problem with balancing things like this is that you are punishing people who weren't not involved in a situation...

> it doesn't come with the uncomfortable connection to examples of people taking the underlying ideas way more seriously.

And racist joke were also justified before because they were just joke that nobody take seriously.

> Comedy about my gender is funnier because nobody actually thinks my gender is a weakness.

You would be surprised... Sure not weakness... But things like emotional maturity and basic organization skills that's a different story.

> To that point, culture is absolutely full of baseless attacks on women too, often in a far more damaging context. Lots of people still feel way too comfortable suggesting women are biologically unsuited for high status jobs and really only valuable for making babies. And the vitriol directed at women in the abortion debate, and the actual reduction in rights that rhetoric has led to, sort of puts dumb male sitcom characters in perspective.

This also a big problem every time men/boys problem are brought to the for front. It seems to always been turned into "but what about women... etc..."

I can only speak for myself, as fairly liberal man. We all understand (even if we don't always relate to them) the tribulation that women face. Those things should definitively be addressed and fought for. But we don't need to solve ALL the women problems before we give some attentions to men issues. And certainly shouldn't use that as excuse to continue detrimental societal stereotypes.

Stereotyping an entire gender as dumb, un effective buffoon is wrong and as you mentioned yourself not very funny. Let's just stop it and move on... there is no need for mental gymnastic to find bizare excuses.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#205
post #109
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> What's surprising is there is no visible response to neutralise that dogma. Perhaps because your exceedingly-vague conspiracy theory is full of holes? For example: 1. Which foreign governments are you accusing? Do you even know, or are you just assuming somebody must be doing the thing ? 2. Exactly what mechanism of foreign "grants" is being used to force the hiring of certain staff or educators, and where are they…

I would encourage to watch the BBC piece entitled "Chinas Magic Weapon"

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#206
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, this is a plot point in a very popular Chinese-language sci-fi novel called Death’s End. Humanity is deliberately nudged to take on more feminine qualities to make them a less effective fighting force against a colonizing species. The author had to run his book by the CCP - you get the sense this hints at an accepted strategy in the Chinese mainland. It’s an interesting read.

Lol this is Alex Jones crap. "The globalists are making their plans public in popular media".

I don’t think there’s a conspiracy, but testosterone levels and sperm counts have been dropping like a rock.

It’s no one’s plan but we do need to find the cause and deal with it.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#207
post #76
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. When my kid was young and I was out with him the other parents (invariably women) treated me as an oddity and assumed I would be incompetent. Yet, many don't like the fact they're saddled with the majority of childrearing. Dating is much the same: the majority of the hetero/bi female dating pool selects in favour of features that are often red flags for toxic masculinity. This gets better as one gets older,…

>> I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact. ... > toxic masculinity Maybe we could make progress by tabooing words that frame being male as a bad thing?

The term "toxic masculinity" doesn't imply that masculinity is inherently toxic any more than the term "burnt toast" implies that toast is inherently burnt. Toxic masculinity refers specifically to expressing and enforcing masculinity in a way that's harmful (to men as well as women).

Teaching boys to epxress masculinity through strength, assertiveness, self-reliance, etc. is totally healthy in moderation. Teaching boys to be violent or domineering isn't, nor is teaching them that showing emotion or asking for help is weakness.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misandry is normalized in society. Whenever you encounter a baseless attack on men just reverse the roles and you'll realize that there'd be pitchforks for treating women as anything other than paragons of virtue. Entire entertainment genres are built around portraying men as inept fools who can be looked down upon by the opposite sex. Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the me…

As a man I've never understood this complaint. Sure, it's a sitcom cliche to always have the bumbling dad and the competent mom who is usually also wildly out of his league, but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about (it is boring writing, but that's a different problem). Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works better because it can be seen…

The issue is that, at least for me, growing up the only exposure you had to the concept of "normal" on TV was sitcoms. They lived in a block of shows that got shown either before or after The Simpsons (which was obviously meant to be not real, except for literally everything they said about the American healthcare system) and thus even though you knew there was meant to be funny things happening, it was never clear what the subversion of - not to teenagers trying to figure out their identity.

We had a stunning lack of shows which tried to depict well adjusted male characters: i.e. people who could have emotions, who could have flaws and were allowed to work to correct them, but who could also be sources of wisdom or correct. Instead we had "sitcoms" and "drama".

And in Australia at least, our "drama" is...pretty god damn messed up - but at least that was obviously something you didn't want to watch.

It's why show's like Bluey have exploded the way they have: it fills that need for a middle ground of something in media to say "this is what you can be" in a way which isn't playing to stereotypes.

Though I suppose all of that could be summarized as: the death of boomer humor about hating your wife is long-overdue.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#209

As a black guy I don't remember a friend ever saying "black people suck" to my face. But I've heard people I'm close with, both women and men, say that "men suck" countless times. I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact.

Misandry is normalized in society. Whenever you encounter a baseless attack on men just reverse the roles and you'll realize that there'd be pitchforks for treating women as anything other than paragons of virtue. Entire entertainment genres are built around portraying men as inept fools who can be looked down upon by the opposite sex. Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the me…

Because we did Seinfeld. It's done. You can still watch it. It's really popular amongst Millenials and Gen Z. People say "you couldn't do that show today" and I wonder what show they think isn't being done? Because It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is right there - it's definitely not Seinfeld, because that would be redundant, but it's been happily leaning into similar ideas (while going a different direction).

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#210
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Aside from all the other problems with this that others have pointed out, the most obvious hyper-masculine adversary you might be referencing is currently proving to be embarrassingly inept at actual war. I would have expected western (particularly US) culture conservatives to stop complaining about the masculinity of our armed forces compared to our rivals once one of the rivals in question showed all the performati…

For some reason there's a comparison that comes to mind regarding Roman Legions fighting Germanic Barbarians. I don't know how true it is or if it's really all that provable anyway, but I remember learning that the Romans were quite effective because of their teamwork and discipline and the tools that they were able to use effectively because of that. While the barbarians liked swinging large swords and individual glory, the Romans had short gladiuses and long shields. They'd form a wall and just slowly advance while stabbing enemies in the guts.
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