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The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

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Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#241

Post by fullspectrumdev »

superkuh wrote: post #97
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there. I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people can…

Was this comment written by an LLM?

You know those of us in the EU elect these people who write these laws, right? And there’s public consultations and shit?

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#242

Post by fullspectrumdev »

scarface_74 wrote: post #114
onli wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. First, the devices with removable batteries are exceedingly rare right now. They also often enough are niche products. Second, it is not reasonable to expect every consumer to always think about what is right, and not instead to follow what marketing tells him to buy. This is exactly what regulations are good for and historically have solved.

Yes people are too stupid to make their own choices. The EU should just start coming out with “5 Year Plans”. What could possibly go wrong? The EU’s regulations must be why there is a thriving tech sector in Europe…

Europes tech sector is thriving, but it’s all boring technology that actually solves real problems that nobody cares about like SAP and shit so the HN crowd don’t think it exists :)

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#243

Post by benhurmarcel »

systemtest wrote: post #12

It is interesting that the EU only wants to regulate markets that they are not participating in. They don't make smartphone anymore so any regulations isn't hurting them. It would be admirable if they held the same standard for vehicles, including brands from the EU.

Is there a significant amount of electric vehicles that get discarded because it's too hard to change the battery?

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#244

Post by fullspectrumdev »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #39
f6v wrote: post #28

I don’t know. I already have to click cookie buttons on every goddamn web site I visit, it’s annoying as hell. These EU initiatives can be a bit pointless. Battery needs to be replaced like once every 2-3 years. Why change the device design to make battery user-replaceable when I can bring it to the repair shop?

Because most people won't: - it's expensive - it takes their phone away If changing the battery is a one hour cheap deal, a lot more people may do it. And I am very happy about those EU initiatives: this way I know what sites are tracking me and how much. This tells me which sites values annoying me with their banner so they can sell my data. Have you noticed there is no banner on Hacker news despite the fact that: -…

You are probably the first poster I’ve seen in here who “gets it” about the cookie banners

If you aren’t being a bastard, you don’t need to show me a banner.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#245

Post by kwanbix »

celestialcheese wrote: post #228
kwanbix wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I honestly don't see the advantage. What I would ask is that companies that create phones without replaceable batteries, should provide replacement by a reasonable fee (let's say no more than 9% the cost of the phone).

The problem that these bills are trying to solve isn't just consumer, it's End of Life management at the recycler level. Glued-in, Li-ion batteries over the years have caused so much headache for ewaste processors. Apple has improved over the years with their glue tabs, but it's still a big problem in the market as a whole. https://www.popsci.com/energy/lithium-ion-batteries-recyclin... https://www.waste360.com/busin…

That is why I said that companies should provide a reasonably priced battery exchange program.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#246

Post by tcfhgj »

sroussey wrote: post #179
jacquesm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still on a dumb phone and that's because I think spending $800 on a phone is ridiculous. And it's not like I can't afford it.

I spend money where I spend time: phone, chair, monitor, mattress. I rarely drive so my car is 19 years old. I use my phone daily (right now!) so I have the newest one.

Why explicitly the newest one?

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#247

Post by pteraspidomorph »

mrweasel wrote: post #188
thesnide wrote: post #94

The battery is indeed the HW part that has the most decay. But in that 5y time-frame the SW part is the one that is the most problematic. It would be nice to be able to replace the ROM easily after the EOL of the device. Will self-regulate itself immediately, as then incentives to have longer life is real and you cannot force customers to just buy another device because you decided it's time. By "replace ROM easily"…

The sad part is that you can't even do "ROM" replacements, it won't work for most people. Many countries have multiple apps that you more or less need to function in society, there needs to be a requirement for those apps to be installable on jail broken phones, not just via the official app store, if custom firmware is to make sense. Otherwise that old phone isn't going to provide much value anyway. 10 years of soft…

It's not just the official store. Google Safetynet, used by a whole lot of essential android apps such as banking apps (particularly essential in the EU after app confirmation became legally required for online transactions) and also completely unnecessarily by a lot of frivolous apps, prevents implementing apps from functioning in open/rooted android installs, unless you jump through a bunch of hoops to fool the app about the device's rooted state.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#248

Post by scarface_74 »

fullspectrumdev wrote: post #242
scarface_74 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes people are too stupid to make their own choices. The EU should just start coming out with “5 Year Plans”. What could possibly go wrong? The EU’s regulations must be why there is a thriving tech sector in Europe…

Europes tech sector is thriving, but it’s all boring technology that actually solves real problems that nobody cares about like SAP and shit so the HN crowd don’t think it exists :)

“Thriving” a bunch of SaaS companies? If you add up the valuations of all of the tech companies in the EU, do they sum up to the value of Apple?

That’s not even to mention the pay differential for tech employees.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#249

Post by dagmx »

brvsft wrote: post #51
mantas wrote: post #9

Iphone battery is already pretty close to replaceable by this law. You need a common tool to get in (trident screwdriver is available in most DIY shops), then glue tabs can be pried by hand. Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line?

Those tabs are not that easy to pull by hand. Very easy to break and then you're forced to pry out the battery, which is less safe than if it didn't need prying. I know the glue is unnecessary because every time I've replaced a battery, I didn't glue the new one back in, and my phone performed fine.

Your last sentence is odd because obviously the glue isn’t something like thermal paste. It won’t affect performance.

The glue is there for structural reasons. Adhesion allows better rigidity by making use of the structure around it.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#250

Post by hexagonwin »

tomjen3 wrote: post #58
microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second proposed legislation from the article seems to require that at least 5 years of updates must be provided after the device was last sold. This is far more than many low-end and mid-range Android phones, moreover many Android phone manufacturers start counting after the device was released, not last sold. Interestingly, they also seem to put upper bounds on how quickly these updates should be rolled out. Eg.…

Is it? It is going to meant that Android can't take advantage of the high end features of the new phones that are being released, and that old and slow phones are going to get updates that makes them run even slower. To top it of, it is not like manufacturers are into throwing away money, so this will likely mean that prices on the cheapest phones will increase more.

Phones nowadays are pretty powerful, even on newer softwares older devices are pretty usable. I actually still daily drive an MSM8974-powered Android phone with an Android 11 custom firmware, and it still runs much better than some of the cheapest phones on the market.
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