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Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

independent.co.uk

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Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#121

Post by chongli »

hgsgm wrote: post #87
chongli wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m generally skeptical of the critical thinking movement. There is not much evidence that students can be taught to transfer their critical thinking skills from one subject to another. I think much of what people refer to as critical thinking is more aptly called subject expertise.

Huh? Are you saying that math and logic are not useful in a wide variety of subjects?

I’m a math student. Of course I think math and logic are useful. They’re still subject expertise. They will not help you analyze a painting or a piece of music or a poem.

They also generally won’t help you evaluate scientific claims unless you also have enough scientific background. If someone says “humans will set foot on Mars within 30 years”, you’re going to have a hell of a time determining whether that’s reasonable unless you know a lot about: rocketry, physics, space travel, radiation, astronomy, human anatomy, nutrition, engineering, economics, and many other subjects!

If you’re just a math/logic wiz and not an expert in those other areas, you may be inclined to say “they’ve already put rovers on Mars, should be easy to get humans there!” because there’s nothing impossible or illogical about the question.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#122

Post by voakbasda »

joker_minmax wrote: post #120
chongli wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a TA for first-year intro CS on multiple occasions. I have written the test suites that auto-grade student submissions. The problem with first year CS students is that, unlike math, they’re allowed to have a huge range of possible prior experience in the subject. Some have zero programming experience whatsoever, while others started programming in diapers and competed in numerous programming contests (and…

Couldn't they just distribute the class ability level correctly using a placement test?

The advanced students looking to boost their grade could easily lower their score intentionally, so they get sorted into the beginner group.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#123

Post by meroes »

Taek wrote: post #25
PeterStuer wrote: post #20

"Our own hope is that, through AI, we can eventually approximate a 1:1 teacher:student ratio for every student in CS50" Would this not be a 0:1 ratio? Not against LLM's for some coding assistance, I use it daily. , but equating a teacher with an LLM solution feels like calling a youtube video a 1 on 1 tutoring session. Well at least a semester at Harvard isn't costing you much ...

An LLM is a million times better than a YouTube video because it can stop and re-explain anything specific that is confusing you, or have discussions about tangential but off-curriculum topics, ask you questions based on its own appraisal of your understanding and gaps, etc. Might not be a full teacher but its definitely an excellent teaching tool

You’re not finding the right youtube teachers then. For example Professor Leonard https://www.youtube.com/@ProfessorLeonard will get anyone through Calc 1-3 and they will understand it well. I am extremely skeptical of the claim an LLM could do better. Even 20% would be asking a lot.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#124

Post by DistractionRect »

Hendrikto wrote: post #51
Lio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with LLMs so far is that they very confidently give you an answer and very convincingly explain that answer but for certain portion of the time that answer is very wrong. You can even get it to break its reasoning down into little convincing but, none the less, incorrect steps. If I was running this course I would make that "artefact" part of the process. i.e. I would tell students that the chatbot will…

> I would set traps to ensure that they are doing that. ;) You won‘t have to. Students are extraordinarily skilled at fining endless pitfalls on their own.

That can be a double edged sword, particularly when the lesson is about an edge case/pitfall. You'd be surprised how they can seemingly blunder their way to the solution while waltzing around the edge case, and thus not learning the intended lesson.

Setting the stage where they either land in the pit, or start from within, ensures they're interacting with the material as intended.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#125

Post by some_random »

eesmith wrote: post #22
chefandy wrote: post #18

CS50 was a gigantic intro class designed to whet non-comp-sci students appetite for coding and computer science, generally. (I took it when it was C/PHP, so they may have changed things.) While the lectures are very straightforward, the smaller 'sections' lectures with the dozen-or-so teaching fellows were more intensive, and p-sets were pretty challenging for newbies. The weekly help sessions ended up being a millio…

I find it hard to reconcile "The weekly help sessions ended up being a million lost students in a giant hall waiting to see one of a few dozen TAs offering uneven pedagogical quality." with "very, very well-funded class". Why didn't the funding go to hiring more staff? My experience in a state school had far more access to education staff than what you describe, and for less funding.

Yeah, not exactly helping with my prior of "college is a massive, societal level scam"

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#126

Post by some_random »

chongli wrote: post #78
dr_dshiv wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Definitely users are responsible for knowing this. And it is one of the key things that education needs to teach.

I’m generally skeptical of the critical thinking movement. There is not much evidence that students can be taught to transfer their critical thinking skills from one subject to another. I think much of what people refer to as critical thinking is more aptly called subject expertise.

I don't believe that at all, the idea of challenging what you know and how you know it is extremely useful across all subjects. The problem is that the efforts to teach critical thinking has been colossal failures.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#127

Post by some_random »

chongli wrote: post #121
hgsgm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Are you saying that math and logic are not useful in a wide variety of subjects?

I’m a math student. Of course I think math and logic are useful. They’re still subject expertise. They will not help you analyze a painting or a piece of music or a poem. They also generally won’t help you evaluate scientific claims unless you also have enough scientific background. If someone says “humans will set foot on Mars within 30 years”, you’re going to have a hell of a time determining whether that’s reasona…

Critical thinking isn't about evaluating the claim "humans will set foot on Mars within 30 years" by examining rocketry, physics, space travel, etc. It's about asking questions like "who is telling me this, why would they say this, what other beliefs do they have that might influence this one, what do other people say about this claim?" It's universally applicable but gets more effective the more you know about a given topic.

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#129

Post by c7b »

aClicheName wrote: post #86

Here’s a small project I had made that acts in a similar fashion, but is instead intended for therapy. It’s not much, but I’ve open sourced it so that you can see how easy it is to make something like this. The ruleset in chat.php is really all that’d need changed. https://github.com/HenryNewcomer/DrTherabot

Interesting. One question, have you thought through the safety aspects? I've heard at least one credible account [0] where a chatbot is being blamed for a self-harm tragedy. And that was with a product that wasn't even targeted at people with mental health problems, presumably the risks would be compounded in such an application. What is your mitigation strategy here?

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/widow-accuses-ai-chatbot-rea...

Re: Harvard’s new computer science teacher is a chatbot

#130

Post by eesmith »

wil421 wrote: post #76
eesmith wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be missing something. Harvard has 7,153 undergrads says Wikipedia. At most that's 1,790 students per year taking the class each year. But surely not everyone is taking the course? So why does it need to scale? Harvard tuition is $54,269, says https://registrar.fas.harvard.edu/tuition-and-fees . Assuming it's a 3 hour class with a 120 credit hours to graduate, that's 30 hours per year, so each student pays abou…

My coworker’s kid just graduated from Harvard. He said it cost about $315,000k. Does your number include all the fees and such most colleges tack on to tuition?

I linked to https://registrar.fas.harvard.edu/tuition-and-fees which shows I quoted only tuition. That's the amount which most directly goes toward paying for educational staff salaries.

The total tuition+fees for Academic Year 2023-24 from the same page, is $79,450/year, giving $317,800 for 4 years, and matching your number.

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