Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is nonsense. You don't lose your identity when you fall asleep. Consciousness is clearly a thing that you can have or not have. A brain can exist without it being conscious.
You don't lose your consciousness when you fall asleep. You time travel to the point where you wake up.
Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
271–280 of 305 posts
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#272Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here’s one way it’s relevant: universities are structured according to a philosophical opinion about the nature of the universe (or at least the nature of knowledge about the universe). That set of decisions in turn steers, at a very fundamental level, the path and velocity of scientific inquiry.
I fail to see what you mean exactly. Could you explain? Specifically why the opinion is philosophical and not just some historic-pragmatic pattern matching and grouping?
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My philosophy professor had a multi-volume (non-English-language) textbook called “Introduction to the science of philosophy”, so, uh, I dunno. I too am not sure what you are implying there. The enterprise, assuming it had some merit, sounds like evidence of complementarity? > it brings along the burden of pointing out some holes in the scientific enterprise, a general conception of how to fill them, and at least s…
I hold a master in philosophy and it was my first big love. Over the years I came however to a conclusion opposite to yours. > Also, philosophy underpins science. Whenever a hypothesis is tested, there is are philosophically-grounded assumptions being made. The epistemological implications for any given scientific finding depend on the underlying philosophical framework being assumed. I think that is not true. Scienc…
In the day-to-day practice of science i.e. when empirical inquiry 'works', there certainly are underpinning philosophical assumptions, whether or not they are reconsidered or appreciated with every experiment. The implicit in the act of hypothesis testing, some variant of which most scientists in day-to-day practice, are assumptions about the nature of probabilities, inference etc. The NHST framework that is typically used came about after extensive battles over philosophical considerations that apply to significance/hypothesis testing between Neyman and Pearson vs Fisher. The fact that I never write that a hypothesis is (as a research biologist) is 'proven', but some variant that of it having withstood an attempt at falsification, is loaded with Popperian critical rationalism.
> Math is the precise language needed to speak about these methods and the knowledge.
Except math can't map directly onto reality, or data generating processes that are studied, unless you are presupposing some kind of logical positivism (and I doubt you are). We need probabilities, statistics, and frameworks to map all of this uncertainty, and they must be underpinned by some sort of philosophical assumptions that can't be derived from science itself.
> Look at the achievements of science. That is how you get convinced it gives us a grip on reality.
But that in and of itself is a philosophy of science, one of instrumentalism. However, it only extends to whether science can be useful, but not whether it is accurately describing reality or is true.
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
My philosophy professor had a multi-volume (non-English-language) textbook called “Introduction to the science of philosophy”, so, uh, I dunno. Claiming it’s complementary is also not benign—it brings along the burden of pointing out some holes in the scientific enterprise, a general conception of how to fill them, and at least some practical success in doing so. I don’t believe that to be impossible and have some th…
I’m not sure what your professor writing some book with a vague title is meant to show. Am I supposed to google this to find the thesis? Yes, there is a sub area called philosophy of science, and many people in that area are trained in philosophy and science. But I’m unsure why you think philosophers are supposed to be getting empirical facts about physics right ahead of the physicists. That’s not their job.
What is their job then?
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#276Firstly let me say human consciousness is many layers of personification and abstract meaning, all of which wonder of existential awareness of being as the ultimate actualization of those who have it.
This proposition is that it is existential reality itself that is dormant “potential of being”, which biotechnology animates and extends. The scope of consciousness lies in whatever the substrate is made of. In our case, likely the 2D crystal lattices of neuron microtubules.
These through aggregation couple and combine such that a shared resolution may capture and reveal an analog “image”, much like wave front holography. Many sub-scopes compete for the illusion of singular awareness consciousness which gets us wondering.
It is this holographic sieve that can be said the echo chamber of one’s personal consciousness. All of the wetware provides perception, enables action, and an ideal container for this process to occur.
Further, neural and behavioral strategies structure and develop character of individual cognition, creating such variety of conjecture as we find among us.
By this sieve of consciousness, and the distribution of potential over time, all strategies of life may emerge. That primitive continuity of will which determines to exist comes by the capacity to maintain corporeal scope of existential being.
Life technology emerges from the intrinsic capacity for consciousness as a sieve of the potential of existential being. Consciousness, how ever large or small is the inflection upon this potential of existential being.
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#277Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure what your professor writing some book with a vague title is meant to show. Am I supposed to google this to find the thesis? Yes, there is a sub area called philosophy of science, and many people in that area are trained in philosophy and science. But I’m unsure why you think philosophers are supposed to be getting empirical facts about physics right ahead of the physicists. That’s not their job.
I mean, I gotta ask now, right? What is their job then?
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#279Im a grad student in philosophy, and this one unfortunately risks perpetuating the annoying myth that philosophers are somehow in competition with the natural sciences — usually believed by people who have literally never taken any courses in philosophy. Quine said that philosophical inquiry is continuous with empirical inquiry, but I think it’d be fine to say that it’s just complementary.
My philosophy professor had a multi-volume (non-English-language) textbook called “Introduction to the science of philosophy”, so, uh, I dunno. Claiming it’s complementary is also not benign—it brings along the burden of pointing out some holes in the scientific enterprise, a general conception of how to fill them, and at least some practical success in doing so. I don’t believe that to be impossible and have some th…
Well, Democritus did. But nobody paid much attention. Which is the fundamental problem with philosophy - absent objective criteria of validity, it becomes a popularity contest.
Re: Decades-long bet on consciousness ends
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My philosophy professor had a multi-volume (non-English-language) textbook called “Introduction to the science of philosophy”, so, uh, I dunno. I too am not sure what you are implying there. The enterprise, assuming it had some merit, sounds like evidence of complementarity? > it brings along the burden of pointing out some holes in the scientific enterprise, a general conception of how to fill them, and at least s…
I hold a master in philosophy and it was my first big love. Over the years I came however to a conclusion opposite to yours. > Also, philosophy underpins science. Whenever a hypothesis is tested, there is are philosophically-grounded assumptions being made. The epistemological implications for any given scientific finding depend on the underlying philosophical framework being assumed. I think that is not true. Scienc…
This is the core confusion I think. I find philosophy very relevant for the way I reason and solve problems and evaluate arguments, and in this sense philosophy is powerfully practical. But it’s true that for any given claim, there is always the possibility of taking the opposite position. This lack of final, case-closed consensus doesn’t mean that philosophers individually haven’t converged on true beliefs or haven’t made progress. It’s just that unlike mathematical truths, we can write out the proofs of our arguments, but there’s always someone who disagrees about one of the starting assumptions. So then civilians who haven’t heard of people like Parfit think to themselves, wow 2k years and you can’t tell me anything about ethics or logic or epistemology — it’s like bro just read the literature