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$900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

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Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#301

Post by galleywest200 »

GenerWork wrote: post #282
deanmoriarty wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are just not aware. C-Level folks make many millions a year, either liquid or paper. I am at FAANG and virtually everyone at L6 (staff Eng level, many thousands of people) is paid at least $500k, with monthly liquidity (no cliff). With a bit of luck stock wise, it’s also not uncommon at all to get to $500k+ at L5 (senior eng level, many dozens of thousands of people). Everyone in my SF network (hundreds…

Reading anecdotes like this blows my mind. The most I've ever made is $129k. Granted, I don't live in the valley and I don't work at a FAANG, but still...

Right? Make 300k for 2-3 years then quit and just go back and get another degree without needing to work outside of it whatsoever. Sounds amazing.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#302

Post by briHass »

Solvency wrote: post #65
giantg2 wrote: post #12

It's always interesting to think about how someone somewhere is earning as much as you earn in a decade or lifetime in a single year. Also that you are that person for someone else.

What I find more interesting is this: A sole proprietor landscaper making $45-50K a year in California is paying $675 a year in annual registration fees just to keep his newish pickup truck on the road. Why newish? Because the people he's servicing trust a guy with a nicer work vehicle than a beaten down 30 year old Tacoma. A $900k developer with the same pickup is also paying $675 a year. Extrapolate this seemingly…

Don't forget, however, that the $45K landscaper probably pays zero in Federal taxes, while the 900K dev (assuming it was all cash, which it isn't) is losing a third of that to Fed taxes alone, and tons more to State and local.

I'm not saying the highly-paid developer is hurting, but the better question is why does it cost $675/year to register a vehicle in CA? Our income tax system is already highly progressive, so why do we have all these other stealth taxes that hurt low incomes the most.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#303

Post by foogazi »

GenerWork wrote: post #282
deanmoriarty wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are just not aware. C-Level folks make many millions a year, either liquid or paper. I am at FAANG and virtually everyone at L6 (staff Eng level, many thousands of people) is paid at least $500k, with monthly liquidity (no cliff). With a bit of luck stock wise, it’s also not uncommon at all to get to $500k+ at L5 (senior eng level, many dozens of thousands of people). Everyone in my SF network (hundreds…

Reading anecdotes like this blows my mind. The most I've ever made is $129k. Granted, I don't live in the valley and I don't work at a FAANG, but still...

Would be fun to try your luck

I was like that until I read levels.fyi data and blind app and gave it a shot

Worse they can say is no

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#304

Post by foogazi »

nexus2045 wrote: post #290
moralestapia wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this here and there and don't doubt it, but then again I've never seen/met anyone IRL (outside of C-level) making this much money as an employee. Are they just extremely rare cases or am I just not aware of the valley and their customs?

No this is not rare at all. Meta offers E5 ("senior" level) new hires a 400-500k total package in the US (given that you negotiate, I know the levels.fyi numbers are a bit lower), and this isn't some exception. If your performance is good and/or stock appreciation happens, then that number goes even higher. I'm a very average engineer (probably way below average amongst the HN crowd) and I'm in that range.

> If your performance is good and/or stock appreciation happens

Stock appreciation is the key + performance for sticking around

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#305

Post by occamsrazorwit »

moralestapia wrote: post #213
QIYGT wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That person could probably be making 500k+ at a FANG with less variance in the stock component.

I read this here and there and don't doubt it, but then again I've never seen/met anyone IRL (outside of C-level) making this much money as an employee. Are they just extremely rare cases or am I just not aware of the valley and their customs?

I think there's a few other factors that impact visibility.

* The Bay Area is a place where you can make $100k a year and be classified as low-income [1].

* Tech employees tend to live low-key lifestyles that don't really show how much they're making. I know people who make $500k and still live with roommates.

* Income inequality and progressive politics combine to make people less reluctant to talk about their TC packages, unless you're also at a similar socio-economic level.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-s...

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#306

Post by throwaway7561 »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #256
prepend wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> staff Eng level, many thousands of people I don’t work at a FAANG so I could be totally off but I think there’s only about 1,000 L6+ at google [0] and they employ the most. So it’s not thousands of people at this level within a company. Maybe only a few thousand in total of all companies in the US. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-are-at-each-level-of-t...

I firmly believe you are off by an order of magnitude at least. First, the comment you linked is 7 years old. Most FAANG companies increased their headcount many fold ever since. Second, there is such a thing as title inflation, over time more and more people get promoted to their terminal level, which at my FAANG is very often L6, each tiny team has always at least one or two of them. There are many, many more than…

I'm an L5 at Google and don't even remotely make $500k. About half that, depending on how GOOG stock does. Yes, that huge number is probably not unheard of, but "not unheard of" doesn't mean it's common. So either 1. I'm absolutely terrible at negotiation or 2. Online comp statistics suffer from bias where people excited about their salaries tend to report it and the majority don't. I know levels.fyi tries to correct for bias, but it's very, VERY hard to believe $500k is COMMON for L5. Yes they probably exist. Yes, HN commenters probably skew towards "highly skilled" so you're going to see a lot of high comps here. No, we're not all even within striking range of $500k.

And L6 is very, VERY senior. Not ridiculously senior like the aristocracy at L7+ but L6s are rare and there's probably one of them for every ten L5's. L5 to L6 is a major weed-out promo, and not many people get that far. I've been trying for 5 years.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#307

Post by disqard »

throwaway7561 wrote: post #306
deanmoriarty wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I firmly believe you are off by an order of magnitude at least. First, the comment you linked is 7 years old. Most FAANG companies increased their headcount many fold ever since. Second, there is such a thing as title inflation, over time more and more people get promoted to their terminal level, which at my FAANG is very often L6, each tiny team has always at least one or two of them. There are many, many more than…

I'm an L5 at Google and don't even remotely make $500k. About half that, depending on how GOOG stock does. Yes, that huge number is probably not unheard of , but "not unheard of" doesn't mean it's common. So either 1. I'm absolutely terrible at negotiation or 2. Online comp statistics suffer from bias where people excited about their salaries tend to report it and the majority don't. I know levels.fyi tries to correc…

Thank you for injecting a much-needed reality-check into this discussion. My experience corroborates yours too, so here's N=2, FWIW.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#308

Post by deanmoriarty »

throwaway7561 wrote: post #306
deanmoriarty wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I firmly believe you are off by an order of magnitude at least. First, the comment you linked is 7 years old. Most FAANG companies increased their headcount many fold ever since. Second, there is such a thing as title inflation, over time more and more people get promoted to their terminal level, which at my FAANG is very often L6, each tiny team has always at least one or two of them. There are many, many more than…

I'm an L5 at Google and don't even remotely make $500k. About half that, depending on how GOOG stock does. Yes, that huge number is probably not unheard of , but "not unheard of" doesn't mean it's common. So either 1. I'm absolutely terrible at negotiation or 2. Online comp statistics suffer from bias where people excited about their salaries tend to report it and the majority don't. I know levels.fyi tries to correc…

Something is off here… are you based in the Bay Area?

I literally have PDF copies of offers I received in 2018 from both Facebook and Google for L5 roles in the $400k range, and things just went significantly crazier since then. And I am the most average engineer you can imagine, with most of my peers in a similar situation.

I cannot comprehend how your TC can just be $250k at Google after 5 years of refreshers. That’s like L3 comp in the pocket of the organization I’m at.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#309

Post by throwaway7561 »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #308
throwaway7561 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an L5 at Google and don't even remotely make $500k. About half that, depending on how GOOG stock does. Yes, that huge number is probably not unheard of , but "not unheard of" doesn't mean it's common. So either 1. I'm absolutely terrible at negotiation or 2. Online comp statistics suffer from bias where people excited about their salaries tend to report it and the majority don't. I know levels.fyi tries to correc…

Something is off here… are you based in the Bay Area? I literally have PDF copies of offers I received in 2018 from both Facebook and Google for L5 roles in the $400k range, and things just went significantly crazier since then. And I am the most average engineer you can imagine, with most of my peers in a similar situation. I cannot comprehend how your TC can just be $250k at Google after 5 years of refreshers. That…

Yea, Bay Area. I believe you. Obviously there must be a very wide range for L5. I suspect all you see when people post online are the really great ones, because after all who wouldn't want to talk about their great comp?! So, when all you see are the very highest-earners sharing their comp, you might start to think that they're normal or "usual". I've got 20yrs experience in the industry too, but mostly in no-name companies.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#310

Post by pjot »

paulcole wrote: post #103
Solvency wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find more interesting is this: A sole proprietor landscaper making $45-50K a year in California is paying $675 a year in annual registration fees just to keep his newish pickup truck on the road. Why newish? Because the people he's servicing trust a guy with a nicer work vehicle than a beaten down 30 year old Tacoma. A $900k developer with the same pickup is also paying $675 a year. Extrapolate this seemingly…

Yeah crazy. A gallon of milk costs the same if you’re a landscaper or a tech bro. Really makes ya think.

To add, a billionaire consumes just as much milk as someone making 40k
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