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$900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

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Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#191

Post by bugglebeetle »

umeshunni wrote: post #170
bugglebeetle wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this is just because tech industry people are far more susceptible to fantasies and bullshit than those in finance. In fact, they seem to largely enjoy the fantasies and bullshit, as this whole AGI rigamarole has shown. They’ll take a pay cut because the enjoy the make-believe over the cold, naked logic of market movements.

Another way to think about is that finance attracts people who care about money, tech does not.

Tech people care about money. This whole thread wouldn’t exist otherwise. It’s just that they also derive some part of their identities from the cult-like, eschatological fantasies that are very much a part of Silicon Valley culture. By contrast, people in finance would never try to claim that they’re building a god. They already know the only god is money.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#192

Post by dasil003 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #174
dasil003 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in terms of raw talent. And I agree, there are a significant number of NNPPs in many teams who could be culled for a net increase in productivity. However what this viewpoint doesn't account for are team dynamics. A strong TL can turn NNPPs into incremental positive contributors. A great programmer without leadership capabilities will not be able to outpace the technical debt. There are also more subt…

Sure, a great team lead can boost productivity of other engineers. But you dont end up with world changing products that way, you just end up completing some incremental project on time. Probably alot of the core innovations at OpenAI were done by < 10 people.

Way to move the goal posts and waltz right past my point without meaningfully engaging. I thought we were talking about engineers making $250k-$400k at big tech companies and what makes people productive. Now you're talking about the impact of small teams with the right talent in the right place at the right time. That's great, if you were at OpenAI over the last few years, or Google in 1998-2004, or Facebook from 2005-2009, I'd love to hear your thoughts on those moments that teams caught lightning in a bottle. For the rest of the 99.99% of industry, a reductive view of "fire your underperformers" is not necessarily going to net them better results.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#193

Post by pcurve »

nextworddev wrote: post #116

Unpopular opinion: OpenAI is severely underpaying these folks at 900k considering so many asset managers / PMs in finance basically hug S&P 500 and get 1.5m+

Another unpopular opinion: If I think about the reasons why asset managers PMs in finance are overpaid, it's because they created elaborate rent seeking structure in society and industry, with disequilibrium in penalty vs reward. Same thing for lawyers in big firms.

I would argue the engineers in big techs also have benefited from the rent seeking structure. The only reason why they're not enjoying bigger payout is because the actual structure was created by the big tech companies, and not through coordinated effort by engineers. As a result, they reap less reward as they're just highly paid henchmen, and not the bosses.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#194

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #28

Based on what I've seen/heard, they seem to follow a similar comp philosophy to Netflix -- pay top of market to get the best people. But it's also important to note that only $300K of that is in cash. The other $600K is in profit participation, which could take years (maybe even a decade!) to be realized. It could also be worth $6M a year when it's realized. But ultimately it's an investment of your time. Or to think…

This is why Sam wants regulation. All this money spent, yet if the open source world can catch up, it'll all be for naught. They need a world where everyone sits atop OpenAI, not a thousand different startups with their own models. OpenAI might pay its engineers $900k, but an AI startup founder can easily get to a $5M, $10M valuation in under a year.

[deleted]

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#195

Post by rafram »

refurb wrote: post #147
Solvency wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find more interesting is this: A sole proprietor landscaper making $45-50K a year in California is paying $675 a year in annual registration fees just to keep his newish pickup truck on the road. Why newish? Because the people he's servicing trust a guy with a nicer work vehicle than a beaten down 30 year old Tacoma. A $900k developer with the same pickup is also paying $675 a year. Extrapolate this seemingly…

The sole proprietor is also able to get a tax deduction on his truck that the developer can't.

Only if he uses it for work (exclusively for work, if you ask the IRS). And he’s paying double in payroll taxes - sole proprietors/self-employed workers pay 15%, employees pay 7.5%.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#196

Post by quadcore »

WinLychee wrote: post #125
biztos wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sympathetic to this argument, because I know both low-quality and high-quality engineers at most FAANGs, but in principle isn't offering a lot of money a good way to attract talent? In the case of OpenAI you also have interesting tech and a brand that will massively accelerate your career if you want to stay in that field. So while yeah, you have to hire the best people; and OpenAI like everyone else will be payi…

Sort of, you will probably attract the best talent by having the hardest problems, fostering a culture of bottom-up innovation, and giving your engineers a lot of freedom rather than micro-managing them. The pay is closely related, but you also get a lot of people trying to game the system and optimize for max pay, without necessarily the skill or creativity you're looking for. Said another way: top pay attracts peop…

How do you quantify best?

The bests have cool stories to tell.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#197

Post by rafram »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #162
dumbaccount123 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you here to just brag? Also the dollar sign goes on the other side.

Brag about what? Please take a moment to read my comment with understanding. And the dollar sign goes on the side I put it: nine hundred thousand dollars. The fact that you want to write $900k is just an idea specific to the finance world (such as using parentheses for negative numbers). Do you usually write m4, in7 or lb9?

Dollar sign goes before the number, cent sign goes after, other units go after: $7, 7¢, 7 lbs. You can’t pretend convention doesn’t exist just because it’s weird! That’s why it’s convention and not common sense.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#198

Post by chris11 »

biztos wrote: post #60
m3kw9 wrote: post #45

You better perform with that pay

Or...? I mean, Netflix-style hunger-games management might be their thing, and if I got in there at $900K (I did apply!) -- then sure, I'd be working nights and weekends just to shine. But even at infinite comp, above a certain size there will be dead weight.

Is Netflix really that bad? They aggressively state they quickly fire people. But I've also seen reports that their turnover rate is low, and they don't have a PIP culture. It looks to me like people are reasonably happy there for the most part.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#199

Post by QIYGT »

bluedevilzn wrote: post #160
tyingq wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but the median income for SFO is way below what tech people get paid. "barely livable" is perhaps a bridge too far for the $300k+ crowd. :)

The median person in SFO lives a way worse life than a median person in Ohio

Only if you define "good life" as having a big house with a big yard.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#200

Post by IshKebab »

nomilk wrote: post #11

Sam Altman said something to the effect of 'OpenAI has the highest talent density of any company'. OpenAI is modest in employee count and extreme in employee talent, with its employees rewarded commensurately.

Maybe for its size but I bet there are lots of smaller companies with higher talent density, e.g. Oxide Computer.
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