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Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

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Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#211

Post by piuantiderp »

dragonwriter wrote: post #155
justsomehnguy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The army is in Zaporizhia Ah, yes, all 3 regiments, none left in Moscow.

UK MoD estimated earlier in the year that 97% of the Russian Army was deployed to Ukraine. The 1st Guards Tank Army, which includes the elite units traditionally tasked with Moscow's defense, the 2nd Guards Motor Rifle Division and the 4th Guards Tank Division has been heavily committed in Ukraine for most of the war. There is a defensive plan activated and deployment of forces in Moscow, sure, but Wagner has a lot o…

And UK would say the truth?

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#212

Post by more_corn »

lawn wrote: post #161
fwungy wrote: post #15

This is absurd. It makes no sense. I'm calling psyop.

If you've been following the war this was expected and not surprising.

I expected it to be better planned and coordinated. This sounds to me like a vanilla power struggle. “Sign here”, “fuck off”, “sign or die”, “try it” This can all be settled with a phone call. “What do you want?” “Respect, autonomy, support” “Done” “Turning around now”

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#213

Post by watwut »

SenHeng wrote: post #171
iopq wrote: post #167

Why is this flagged? It might be the most important thing to happen all year

Large contingent of 'no politics, not my business' in here.

There is a lot of politics on HN. It is one of the most common topics.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#214

Post by pyb »

SenHeng wrote: post #171
iopq wrote: post #167

Why is this flagged? It might be the most important thing to happen all year

Large contingent of 'no politics, not my business' in here.

It will suddenly become their business if that Prigozhin thug seizes nuclear weapons.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#215

Post by Vibgyor5 »

908B64B197 wrote: post #209
Vibgyor5 wrote: post #207

I am in Russia currently. Not Russian but I speak fluent Russian and have acquaintances in affected territories. Update: 19:28 Moscow time. - Situation is normal in cities and oblasts: as in, there seem to be no panic but people are definitely reading the news. - Everyone support the government - although I find Russians to be highly political apathetic (which is one of the major roots of the problems in the country…

> I find Russians to be highly political apathetic That's a good survival strategy. You'll see them side with the winner as soon as it becomes obvious who that is.

Its not. It is indifference which leads to the very few - who can hold the power - to continue holding it unobstructed and play their narrative with propaganda because they themselves know that even if people realize this is BS, they'd still not do anything about it.

There is a cumulative "corruption of will" - for the lack of better term - that comes with it. And when there is no will, those who can have their way, will continue to have it.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#216

Post by gregw2 »

tootie wrote: post #59
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

I'll say this, the guy is bold as hell. He's an absolute maniac and probably worse than Putin but he sure isn't afraid of anything. One can only hope he wrecks enough chaos make the war in Ukraine untenable. I'll also say this, Putin played his hand as poorly as humanly possible. He spent decades stockpiling loyalty and political capital with an iron fist and spent it all in less two years and has absolutely nothing…

Unless Putin let this thing simmer to draw out dissent and then crush it.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#217

Post by api »

alphabettsy wrote: post #200
api wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but it’s part of how this site has avoided being sucked into the culture war vortex.

It’s absolutely hasn’t avoided that though. There are stories about culture war topics almost daily and multiple on the weekends.

If it wasn’t pushed back against it would take over the entire site and every thread would devolve into a rehashed flame war about Trump or gender issues or something. Then everyone else would leave.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#218

Post by cmurf »

gary_0 wrote: post #183
SenHeng wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large contingent of 'no politics, not my business' in here.

A potential coup in one of the world's most populous countries, who are also in the midst of the largest war in Europe since WW2, is not just "politics". That's ridiculous. A major portion of Russia's de facto military, led by one of the country's most prominent figures, has left Ukraine and is heading for Moscow. This is history happening right in front of us. If HN was around in 1989, would the fall of the Berlin W…

You are making a rational argument against an irrational and faceless adversary who wrote and continues to defend the guidelines which proscribe political discussion as being contemptuous.

It's simply not the proper venue because the policy admits so much distain and misunderstanding of politics that it can't effectively carve out a proper space for such discussion.

And further, the policy admits it cannot trust either participants or the voting system in place to manage such conversations. As soon as one person with power to flag, that's it.

These conversations inevitably make HN management nervous. Since they can't cope with it, no one else is allowed to.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#219

Post by lenocinor »

ptero wrote: post #189
iopq wrote: post #167

Why is this flagged? It might be the most important thing to happen all year

I wish @dang would weigh in. Either unflag it (as I hope) on the grounds of it being a key event of high interest to curious people or confirm that this doesn't belong on HN (which would be a valid point, too).

Small note: @dang doesn’t do anything, if you were expecting that. Messaging hn@ycombinator.com will work, though.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#220

Post by cbraz »

LeonB wrote: post #170
rq1 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the general sent to butcher a region and then was executed for doing what he was actually asked for. His fate was obvious from he beginning but he went there with such impediment that's quite strange he's stil' breathing.

Ok I understand and I think I agree. My question is how this relates to the words “The Prince” ? Is that a reference to Machiavelli? Or Prince Myshkin from Dostoyevsky or some other Prince? A novel, a poem… I just want to know what in particular the words “the prince” refer to here?

Probably a reference to Erik Prince (the founder of the private military company Blackwater).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Prince

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