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Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

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Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#151

Post by kcplate »

defrost wrote: post #148
kcplate wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok…but why is that so important to you? I guess I am trying to understand the motivation behind people who are insisting on splitting hairs to downplay or denigrate the circumstantial evidence that points toward a lab leak. I mean I can understand if there was an accidental lab leak of an engineered virus that killed millions was created in a Chinese lab with American tax dollars why those involved might want that in…

Regardless of the domain, questions of strength of evidence and strength of conclusions that can be drawn are of general interest to many.

That’s the thing, I am certainly interested if governments are engineering a possible plague and accidentally this plague leaked out and killed many. That has a widespread obvious general interest to the public. What I don’t understand is why laypeople with no connection to the possible groups and government supposedly involved would be motivated to take up the cause against the speculation. What motivates them? I don’t see the general interest value to cause them to choose that side of the debate.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#152

Post by JoeAltmaier »

revelio wrote: post #150
_-____-_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even understand why it became political. What incentive do people on the left have to deny the obvious conclusion that it came from the lab?

> What incentive do people on the left have to deny the obvious conclusion that it came from the lab? Huh, isn't that kind of obvious? A big part of left wing ideology is progressivism, which is an exaltation of progress. The exact definition of progress changes over time, but the idea is at heart about having the most intelligent and specialized people being granted power to re-organize society for the greater good,…

Some world-class putting words in peoples mouths there. We learn more about the speaker when such nonsense is repeated.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#154

Post by Glyptodon »

zarzavat wrote: post #121
Glyptodon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My memory was that it was being called a "genetically engineered" virus in a way that made it sound like the focus wasn't a lab leak (accident) but an intentional weaponization.

There’s indeed a spectrum of four possibilities: 1) wild virus, no lab involvement 2) wild virus, accidentally released from a lab 3) modified virus, accidentally released from lab 4) modified virus, intentional release At the start of the pandemic, the conspiracy nuts embraced option 4, and the left by reflex embraced option 1 and accused anybody who believe in 2 or 3 of believing in 4. Only later did options 2 and…

I think with the modified virus you don't just have the intentional vs accidental release dichotomy, but two additional items: (1) was the intent of the research plainly scientific or oriented towards weaponization, and (2) whether changes in virus traits are due to "genetic engineering" or not.

Because there are ways in which both of these can have answers less satisfying than a law of nature, they add another degree or yelling past each other to at least the range of 3 to 4.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#155

Post by felixgallo »

dent9876543 wrote: post #133
abracadaniel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I claim that aliens are manipulating our weather and that proof exists, when it doesn’t, that is misinformation. There is no evidence to support my claim, and it is wrong, even if I believe it to be true. If aliens show up tomorrow and announce they have been messing with the weather, then we have the evidence and it is true, but I was still spreading misinformation.

There was once this crank who claimed the Earth orbited the Sun, and not the other way around... That was misinformation too, no?

No. He had evidence, based on direct observation. The claims made at the time with Covid and the lab leak theory had no evidence and were made entirely for political purposes.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#156

Post by lamontcg »

BasedAnon wrote: post #141
lamontcg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PRRA furin cleavage site that was a previously unknown sequence and not something that a scientist would have copied off some other virus.

But one that could definitely emerge via gain of function.

No, it is amazingly unlikely that you'd see an insertion like that arise through some kind of random serial passage.

In nature that happens by recombination which takes many millions of infections to emerge. In the lab you are just replicating that process by serial passage through animals where you might have a dozen animals serially infected. And the chances are probably lower because it is less likely the lab animals would wind up coinfected with another virus that would act as the source material. "Gain of function" research isn't magic.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#157

Post by Klinky »

kcplate wrote: post #146
Klinky wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speculate all you want, just don't make definitive claims using non-definitive evidence.

Ok…but why is that so important to you? I guess I am trying to understand the motivation behind people who are insisting on splitting hairs to downplay or denigrate the circumstantial evidence that points toward a lab leak. I mean I can understand if there was an accidental lab leak of an engineered virus that killed millions was created in a Chinese lab with American tax dollars why those involved might want that in…

Why is that not important to you? I am not "splitting hairs" or "denigrating" anything. I am reading the sources cited and not jumping to a conclusion. The evidence here probably isn't even enough to win a civil trial.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#158

Post by Klinky »

kcplate wrote: post #151
defrost wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the domain, questions of strength of evidence and strength of conclusions that can be drawn are of general interest to many.

That’s the thing, I am certainly interested if governments are engineering a possible plague and accidentally this plague leaked out and killed many. That has a widespread obvious general interest to the public. What I don’t understand is why laypeople with no connection to the possible groups and government supposedly involved would be motivated to take up the cause against the speculation. What motivates them? I do…

I literally said speculate all you want. Just don't expect your speculation to be magically accepted as truth when that's not what the evidence supports.

Have you spoken about your concerns with your congresspersons & asked them to support bans on risky gain-of-function research? That'd be something tangible you could do than just speculating on top of speculation.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#159

Post by Klinky »

BasedAnon wrote: post #139
Klinky wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speculate all you want, just don't make definitive claims using non-definitive evidence.

Even if you had literal witnesses it wouldn't be 'definitive' evidence, I'm not sure why you're using this argument as if you can't make claims about things you didn't directly observe.

Well I don't even think there's enough evidence here to win a civil trial where the bar is lower than criminal. Don't act like you have the answer while citing sources that literally say your claim might not be what happened. Y'all just want to jump to a conclusion.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#160

Post by Klinky »

BasedAnon wrote: post #140
Klinky wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many conspiracy theorists have claimed it was a bio-weapon, along with other batshit stuff like Bill Gates & 5G. Read both quotes, not just the last one.

Poisoning the well. Not alot of people subscribe to the COVID is 5G sickness theory aside from Facebook boomers, while Bill Gates' ideology and history of dodgy dealings in foreign countries is not even remotely comparable.

No, there's no evidence of Bill Gate's involvement in the appearance of COVID. You're drinking from the same well as those Facebook boomers.
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