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The Case Against Travel

newyorker.com

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Re: The Case Against Travel

#81

Post by literalis »

probably_wrong wrote: post #27

As a seasoned traveler, both with and without purpose, I feel the author is erecting a straw man tourist that fits no real person. "No, I don't mean those who travel with purpose, nor those who actually appreciate the place, nor those who follow through with a life-changing experience, nor those whose year will now be more bearable thanks to the memories made during the trip, nor those who think they got something ou…

I think in the US at least, travel has an even deeper aspect of ritualized behavior or religiosity in the positive sense of those concepts. A pilgrimage for people who don't believe in anything.

Even someone who takes a 20 hour flight to take photos for Instagram is having a unique life experience. They are going to have experiences worth telling stories about. Certainly more than the person who doesn't leave the house.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#82

Post by amelius »

probably_wrong wrote: post #27

As a seasoned traveler, both with and without purpose, I feel the author is erecting a straw man tourist that fits no real person. "No, I don't mean those who travel with purpose, nor those who actually appreciate the place, nor those who follow through with a life-changing experience, nor those whose year will now be more bearable thanks to the memories made during the trip, nor those who think they got something ou…

> hard to enjoy a sunset next to a gorgeous cathedral on a cliff when your city is 100 years old and flat

Just get a pair of those Apple VR goggles.

Is it the same? No. Is the difference worth destroying the planet? Hell no.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#83

Post by shocks »

borski wrote: post #7
brvsft wrote: post #3

I also find travel mostly unfulfilling, but one difference from the article is that I like doing things while traveling that I would also do in my hometown. For instance, I will go to museums, and I have gone to museums at home before, including being a member at a particular one I visited monthly until I moved. But overall, traveling is a fun activity with centuries of marketing around adventure that doesn't tend to…

While you’re not completely wrong, one of my main reasons for travel is exploring and understanding other cultures. That requires immersion, granted, and concerted effort to avoid the “TripAdvisor lists” unless you have no other ideas at present, but the opportunity for spontaneous interaction with someone wholly different from yourself is something that is harder to get at home. That and the feeling of scale; every…

I had this feeling when I first saw the Nile.

Holy shit is that thing HUGE.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#84

Post by shocks »

I think this article is rather lazy.

People travel for all manner of different reasons. You might not, and that’s fine. Nobody needs to change anyone else’s mind. Neither are right or wrong.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#85

Post by brtkdotse »

literalis wrote: post #81
probably_wrong wrote: post #27

As a seasoned traveler, both with and without purpose, I feel the author is erecting a straw man tourist that fits no real person. "No, I don't mean those who travel with purpose, nor those who actually appreciate the place, nor those who follow through with a life-changing experience, nor those whose year will now be more bearable thanks to the memories made during the trip, nor those who think they got something ou…

I think in the US at least, travel has an even deeper aspect of ritualized behavior or religiosity in the positive sense of those concepts. A pilgrimage for people who don't believe in anything. Even someone who takes a 20 hour flight to take photos for Instagram is having a unique life experience. They are going to have experiences worth telling stories about. Certainly more than the person who doesn't leave the hou…

[flagged]

Re: The Case Against Travel

#86

Post by JKCalhoun »

probably_wrong wrote: post #27

As a seasoned traveler, both with and without purpose, I feel the author is erecting a straw man tourist that fits no real person. "No, I don't mean those who travel with purpose, nor those who actually appreciate the place, nor those who follow through with a life-changing experience, nor those whose year will now be more bearable thanks to the memories made during the trip, nor those who think they got something ou…

Yeah, I don't think Ive read anything as dismissive and cynical as this piece.

I found myself trying to see their viewpoint, trying to be critical of my own experiences as a traveler and I kept failing to do so. What a horrible narrative they're embracing.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#87

Post by brvsft »

borski wrote: post #7
brvsft wrote: post #3

I also find travel mostly unfulfilling, but one difference from the article is that I like doing things while traveling that I would also do in my hometown. For instance, I will go to museums, and I have gone to museums at home before, including being a member at a particular one I visited monthly until I moved. But overall, traveling is a fun activity with centuries of marketing around adventure that doesn't tend to…

While you’re not completely wrong, one of my main reasons for travel is exploring and understanding other cultures. That requires immersion, granted, and concerted effort to avoid the “TripAdvisor lists” unless you have no other ideas at present, but the opportunity for spontaneous interaction with someone wholly different from yourself is something that is harder to get at home. That and the feeling of scale; every…

I agree it is hard to capture that feeling. I've had it a few times, like being in Yosemite it felt majestic, I can't think of a better word for it right now.

But there is beauty in nature everywhere. It is harder to find in populated areas, but it is still there. In some ways, viewing something majestic, while nice and awe-inspiring, is like being smacked in the face with a baseball bat. Do I really need to be awestruck to remember that nature can be beautiful?

As far as cultures, I get it, but I find it uninteresting at this point. These people queue up different. Those people stop and chat different. These other people view time and lateness different. It is mostly surface level stuff you observe when traveling. Like you write, immersion is required to get a real understanding. IMO that's not travel any more, it's living somewhere else for several months and knowing the language. But I'll accept competing definitions of travel, I just don't think it's what people mean when reading an article like this one.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#88

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #6

I agree with the main point of the article. I just disliked some of the specific examples. "You would t spend the entire day walking where you live" - some times I do! "You don't go to museums where you live" - I didn't until I moved to a city with amazing museums, and now I do!

My parents are members of several museums and societies in their large city. Now normally the member benefits provide tickets and passes multiple times per year that present opportunities for locals to visit the museums "for free" because they are already paying members. (There are also free days for everyone.)

But my parents are part of that sizable minority of members who never go to these places on their own. So every time I visited home, there would be an appreciable pile of passes and vouchers on the mantelpiece, and Mom and Dad would encourage me to take a friend, or my sister, and have an outing with the free passes, so we could at least use them up.

So this is the case in my family. Now I can see where people who love visiting museums become members in their own towns, get free passes, and visit there often, right in their backyard. I can also see people becoming members because they love entertaining visitors and they can show those visitors a good time if they have a supply of free passes on-hand and ready for when someone new comes around.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#90

Post by PopAlongKid »

I long ago found the lyrics of this lesser-known Beatles song to be thought-provoking:

  Without going out of your door
  You can know all things on Earth
  Without looking out of your window
  You could know the ways of Heaven

  The farther one travels
  The less one knows
  The less one really knows

  Arrive without travelling
  See all without looking
  Do all without doing
-The Inner Light
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