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The Case Against Travel

newyorker.com

21–30 of 161 posts

Re: The Case Against Travel

#21
I don’t like to travel. I often say that I only want to travel when I have a purpose (study something, visit someone, etc). It does shock some people when I say I don’t like to travel, even when I complement that I don’t dislike either. The accepted answer is that everyone “love” to travel. But I didn’t feel represented in this article. I didn’t feel connected with any of the arguments. I think the author carefully worded each example to being the worst interpretation of it to make a point without considering or conceding what is good about “loving to travel”.

Take this part:

> ” If you think that this doesn’t apply to you—that your own travels are magical and profound, with effects that deepen your values, expand your horizons, render you a true citizen of the globe, and so on—note that this phenomenon can’t be assessed first-personally. Pessoa, Chesterton, Percy, and Emerson were all aware that travellers tell themselves they’ve changed, but you can’t rely on introspection to detect a delusion. So cast your mind, instead, to any friends who are soon to set off on summer adventures. In what condition do you expect to find them when they return? They may speak of their travel as though it were transformative, a “once in a lifetime” experience, but will you be able to notice a difference in their behavior, their beliefs, their moral compass? Will there be any difference at all?”

He puts the positive outcomes of traveling as utopian perspectives, while defining that you can’t disagree, and proposing a test that is obviously designed to fail. “Can you notice a profound transformation in your friends after asking them how the trip went?”. That’s silly.

I noticed profound transformation from traveling in myself and in friends before, but that’s during conversation about other stuff than the trip and that happen along the years, not right after the trip. People talking about their careers, their partners, their family, their expectations, their doubts, and then mentioning something that happened years ago in a touristy trip.

I read this whole text as someone making an effort to prove that they are right at being presumptuous about people who say “I love to travel”.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#22

Or as Frank McCourt once said, when asked "Why do we have to read this?" by one of his students: “You will read it for the same reason your parents waste their money on your piano lessons. So you won't be a boring little shite the rest of your life.” It's very hard to learn how people in other cultures live without going there and experiencing it. Also, your low-stakes fumbles and challenges will make you a little mo…

Yeah but do you really learn anything. Listen to “common people” by Pulp and that is the gist of what I think of how most people travel myself included.

Rich westerners galavanting around poorer countries visiting a rice paddy or temple and doing a cooking lesson with the locals etc. You can be interesting and resilient through other means too. You could be a nurse for example! Or a cop. Or do a survival course down the road from where you live.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#23
post #3

I also find travel mostly unfulfilling, but one difference from the article is that I like doing things while traveling that I would also do in my hometown. For instance, I will go to museums, and I have gone to museums at home before, including being a member at a particular one I visited monthly until I moved. But overall, traveling is a fun activity with centuries of marketing around adventure that doesn't tend to…

I remember mentioning a decade ago that going to Antarctica is cheap, while living in Helsinki is expensive.

Then I took an academic job in what later became one of the least affordable areas in the US. Now I think that travel is cheap, fancy tech gadgets are cheap, and living in Helsinki would have been cheap. Doing things at home, on the other hand, is now a way to show off your wealth, because it assumes that you have a larger home than you would strictly need.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#24
post #14

I can't see why so many people look down on traveling. I do not tell people unless asked (it is not part of my identity) but I traveled my fair share and it changed me a lot. The food I eat (the better half of my diet), the way I drive, my values for a fulfilled life, my willingnes to accept risks in life, appreciation and compassion for regions and many things more. Traveling is what you make out of it. If they walk…

Do you really need to travel to China to get an appreciation for Chinese food? That’s kinda the point the author makes.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#25
> Pessoa, Emerson, and Chesterton believed that travel, far from putting us in touch with humanity, divorced us from it.

And that's bad because hunanity is awesome?

I've travelled a little but never was I interested in people or culture. I liked experiencing natural beauty and land marks. Imagination has nothing on reality.

For example, my favorite part of going to vegas is leaving it during the day to check out nevada,the canyon, utah and east california.

Every single time I went exploring national parks or remote places, I am shocked and in awe more than before.

America is pretty, perhaps these people could use a trip down the pacific highway or a day at yosemite.

If they really did travel then kant,emerson and socrates are fools who in their intellectual pursuit found empty ego boosting thoughts and useless admiration from peope.

And for the record, I love touristy places just fine. I travel for me not to brag about it or for virtue signaling and I hardly think I am a rarity.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#26

After reading how the author views and handles her relationships ( https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-... ), it's hard for me to take her thought seriously despite her credentials.

It's hard to take The New Yorker seriously in any capacity. I find it's just long, pointless essays that don't communicate any new information or original thought, but are designed to make someone who already has the same opinion as the author feel good about themselves. Opinions which are never explicitly made clear.

It's class entertainment sold as news. It make a certain societal class feel higher class than they actually are.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#27
As a seasoned traveler, both with and without purpose, I feel the author is erecting a straw man tourist that fits no real person. "No, I don't mean those who travel with purpose, nor those who actually appreciate the place, nor those who follow through with a life-changing experience, nor those whose year will now be more bearable thanks to the memories made during the trip, nor those who think they got something out of it. I mean the other ones".

I get the urge to dunk on those who are "doing it wrong" (hello Instagrammers blocking the way), but I'd need to have a long conversation with someone before labeling them "unworthy of traveling". And some of my fondest memories are of people and places I wouldn't have met at home - hard to enjoy a sunset next to a gorgeous cathedral on a cliff when your city is 100 years old and flat.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#28

After reading how the author views and handles her relationships ( https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-... ), it's hard for me to take her thought seriously despite her credentials.

This is rather unkind, but I think you are aware of this.

Opinion pieces, by definition, will be full of the author’s bias based on their experience up until the point when the article was written. We all go through the journey of life at our pace and guided by our own direction (but even that is debatable), and as such, dismissing some work with an ad hominim towards the author instead of the content of the piece is uncharitable.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#29
post #19
post #14

I can't see why so many people look down on traveling. I do not tell people unless asked (it is not part of my identity) but I traveled my fair share and it changed me a lot. The food I eat (the better half of my diet), the way I drive, my values for a fulfilled life, my willingnes to accept risks in life, appreciation and compassion for regions and many things more. Traveling is what you make out of it. If they walk…

It's treated in a very similar way to many other status-linked luxuries which used to be the preserve of the upper classes and then spread to the masses through commodification. Theres probably a name for it. If there isnt there should be. Burberryfication? A lot of people who do travel I don't think actually enjoy it much but feel compelled to engage in status games. Meanwhile the upper classes and aspiring upper cl…

I think you're getting at why I struggle to share in people's excitement when they say they 'love to travel', is that to some extent, it feels like an obligation at a certain income level, and when I say I didn't really travel this year, people are surprised. Obviously I'm biased to my own experience, but I feel like I ended up having more to say about the experiences in state parks near me than some folks did about their island trips where they just sat on a beach and drank all day (which is totally fine to enjoy if that's your thing!). It just felt to me like throwing the yeah just got back from the Bahamas again was meant to carry more weight in conversation that what people actually did there or why they went, and that's diluted the meaning of 'travel' to me since I've become an adult.

Re: The Case Against Travel

#30
post #5

This is a very enjoyable and well-written article, and it makes a good point - The nature of travel, and everything you do while you're travelling, is so ephemeral that it really does nothing for establishing or communicating your identity. The people you spend your time with, the sights you see, the food you eat... you are doing all of it because of novelty, not because you've made a deliberate choice. Doing somethi…

tl;dr Woman went on holiday to the UAE (a Disneyland for the rich) and declared travel to not be a meaningful.... because too many people do it now and the experiences became a commodity.

I think it's an indirect commentary on how travel no longer confers status: the plebians ruined it.

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