Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's orders of magnitude less destructive. We have to at least try to make an effort and not give up and "enjoy the status quo while it lasts" It's going to take work - giving up before trying isn't going to help. And telling others to give up won't either.
>It's orders of magnitude less destructive. Citation needed. I'm not sure you've ever been around industrial scale mono-cropping agriculture. The amount of pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides is astronomical. And you are worried about a little cow poop? Which is natural and beneficial to the soil? Have you ever heard of regenerative agriculture? That is what I practice. We live in such an alarmist society one can…
New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
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Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#232Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets All of this is `fighting the last war'. World population is going to fall precipitously by the end of the century. The scarcity thinking everyone is parroting is a relic of the 20th century and it gets in our way. It keeps us from thinking about creating abundan…
> World population is going to fall precipitously by the end of the century. That would be too late. Are you aware about the amount the destruction we cause? Without functioning ecosystems our civilization will perish, 100%. Some think we have 50 years, some are expecting the collapse any day now. UN Report: Nature’s Dangerous Decline ‘Unprecedented’; Species Extinction Rates ‘Accelerating’ https://www.un.org/sustain…
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's orders of magnitude less destructive. Citation needed. I'm not sure you've ever been around industrial scale mono-cropping agriculture. The amount of pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides is astronomical. And you are worried about a little cow poop? Which is natural and beneficial to the soil? Have you ever heard of regenerative agriculture? That is what I practice. We live in such an alarmist society one can…
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Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you may not care about possible future when I can not grow some chicken legally for my own consuming, but I appreciate eating animals as one of the most natural and beautiful things in my life.
How is the legality of residential chicken breeding relevant to this discussion on the environmental impact of lab-grown meat?
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you may not care about possible future when I can not grow some chicken legally for my own consuming, but I appreciate eating animals as one of the most natural and beautiful things in my life.
How is the legality of residential chicken breeding relevant to this discussion on the environmental impact of lab-grown meat?
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why pointless? The authors ran a detailed analysis, identified a bottleneck (the endotoxin purification) and made a recommendation that effort be made to tackle that bottleneck by engineering cell lines that can withstand higher amounts of endotoxins. To me this sounds as useful as science can be.
Maybe I don't understand this statment, but wouldn't it be bad to have endotoxins in your food anyways?
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
The solutions of "everyone just needs to do " are a dime a dozen. We could solve war if everyone just stopped fighting. It's better to fix incentives such as making meat more expensive through taxes or fewer subsidies on meat or feed grains (corn). Or making vegetables cheaper. I could see a serious PR campaign to support farmers/small business (conservative hook) and eat local planet variety combined with fulfilling…
> making meat more expensive through taxes or fewer subsidies on meat or feed grains (corn). But how is that any less dime a dozen? In theory, I agree with you. But the reality is, we don't have the politicians with the backbone or the will to say "I'm going to make your food more expensive." People lost it when eggs shot up in price. Imagine that across the entire diary and meats section at the supermarket? Incentiv…
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American Heart Association recommends eating 2 servings of fish (particularly fatty fish) per week. - American Heart Association A healthy, balanced diet should include at least 2 portions of fish a week, including 1 of oily fish. - NHS UK You should try and include both types of fish in your usual diet. Some foods have DHA added (fortified). Human milk contains DHA and infant formulas must have this fat added. T…
Yes, because people can't be bothered to change their diets. But it's different now, when there is 8 billions of us. Everything changes. And we can obtain Omega-3 from algae, which is the same source that fish rely on. --- The oceans are home for up to 80% of all life on Earth. Today only 3% of Pacific bluefin tuna remain. Overfishing puts $42 billion tuna industry at risk of collapse. For the first time, sharks are…
One can not have their cake and eat it too. Either we defer truth to the experts and cite what they say as if that was the end of discussion, or we use the word of experts to advance the discussions with the caveat that experts recommendation exist in the context of culture and concessions that those expert individuals made. This apply to both a vegan diet and fish.
Current industry farming technique is terrible and belong to a time when we did not care about animal welfare nor did we understand the destructive an inhumane nature of large scale industry. Sadly this apply to every form of farming, from animals, to agriculture, to fishing. As a society we don't know how to generate a lot of food at the lowest price possible without the side effect of massive harms.
And for many people eating plants only is extremely difficult. Metabolic illnesses have significant increased in the last 100 years (or those who suffer from them have managed to survive and reproduce). A likely contributing cause is our current lifestyle of using artificial light (harming the circadian clock) and Sedentary lifestyle. All this contribute to a smaller selection of diets that any individual can eat and stay healthy on, and it mostly up to trial and error to determine which diet work with any particular individual. Beans and grains works for some people and in others it will cause drowsiness, allergic reaction, and/or pain.
As an random example, look up FODMAPs and check around how different people react to those foods. Take a random vegetarian diet and how many items list high or low, and then compare it to a random non-vegetarian diet. Diet and health are complex issues with few simple answers, and most dietitians seem to operate on a extremely individualistic level.
Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, because people can't be bothered to change their diets. But it's different now, when there is 8 billions of us. Everything changes. And we can obtain Omega-3 from algae, which is the same source that fish rely on. --- The oceans are home for up to 80% of all life on Earth. Today only 3% of Pacific bluefin tuna remain. Overfishing puts $42 billion tuna industry at risk of collapse. For the first time, sharks are…
Are you saying that American Heart Association, NHS UK, British Dietetic Association and WHO recommendations are wrong because people can't be bothered to change their diets. One can not have their cake and eat it too. Either we defer truth to the experts and cite what they say as if that was the end of discussion, or we use the word of experts to advance the discussions with the caveat that experts recommendation ex…
Those recommendations are not inherently incorrect. If obtaining Omega-3 from algae were not an available option, it would be a viable choice. If fish populations were not severely depleted, it would be a suitable choice. If there were considerably fewer humans, it would be a reasonable option. However, it appears that environmental impacts were not adequately considered in their viewpoints.
I have selected a citation affirming that plant-only diets are a viable way forward.
> experts recommendation exist in the context of culture
Culture is just stories we tell ourselves. Those stories may not be true or moral or right. It's better explained in this short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw
> As a society we don't know how to generate a lot of food at the lowest price possible without the side effect of massive harms.
But we do know how to generate a lot of food without excessive harms. The only problem is ... price. But there we're getting to the problems of our current system. That would be even harder and longer discussion.
> Metabolic illnesses have significant increased in the last 100 years ... likely contributing cause is our current lifestyle of using artificial light and Sedentary lifestyle
Other possible culprits for the increase in metabolic diseases in past decades include factors such as changes in dietary patterns, increased consumption of processed foods high in sugar and unhealthy fats and lack of physical activity.
We're eating much more meat/dairy that we've been eating in centuries before, and we're using too much poisons in our food production.
> for many people eating plants only is extremely difficult
Many individuals have depleted gut microbiomes due to Western dietary patterns (e.g., processed foods, sugar, lack of fiber), but this can be resolved through dietary changes. The number of individuals who require a diet solely comprised of animal-derived foods would be extremely small. Veganism's definition also includes a practicality clause.
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."