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Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

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Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#61

Post by asynchronous »

splendor_spoon wrote: post #16
shusaku wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing that we’re literally talking about a major geopolitical rival’s negligence leading to the deaths of millions of people, but the right wing talking point continues to be “how can we pin this on Fauci?” Americans have been taught to hate each other more than anyone else.

Conservatives need for the lab leak theory to be correct as they were wrong about basically all other points on covid. They refused to believe in masks, lockdowns, and social distancing and paid the ultimate price at a much higher rate. [0] [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing...

Wow, what a statement considering literally everything you just listed turned out to be a complete joke. I could not have made a better argument to prove a point.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#62

Post by vkou »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #37

It’s sad this became so political with people. Total brain rot.

Do you think it has anything to do with a particular political faction spending the past decade or two rabble-rousing Americans to feel incredibly passionately about all sorts of internal goings on in China[1], as a distraction from poor domestic governance?

[1] Most of which have nothing to do with them, of course.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#63

Post by asynchronous »

Off topic, does anyone else remember the videos from December/January 2020 coming from China that showed young healthy adults dropping dead in the streets like it was a zombie plague? Going off of China’s own numbers, none of that was reality, so what the heck was that? Some ridiculous psyop? For what purpose? To what end?

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#64

Post by metamet »

_-____-_ wrote: post #50
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #37

It’s sad this became so political with people. Total brain rot.

I don't even understand why it became political. What incentive do people on the left have to deny the obvious conclusion that it came from the lab?

I think there's some confusion and rewriting of history going on here.

The left wasn't denying the possibility that it leaked from the Wuhan lab. This was a theory very early on and it wasn't "denied" more that it wasn't substantiated.

It became political when it was asserted by people on the right, without any actual research or investigation, that was an intentional release from China.

Majority of that blame falls on Trump's inability to understand or articulate nuanced topics, particularly within geopolitical contexts. Instead of figuring out how to defeat the virus, majority of their energy went into pointing the finger at who to blame--a far easier task than being an actual leader.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#65

Post by crazygringo »

EMM_386 wrote: post #34

The Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on adding a unique furin cleavage site to a bat coronoavirus strain to make it bind to human ACE-2 receptors. This is factual, because the grant proposals are out there and DARPA in the US turned them down: https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-gra... Suddenly, we have a global pandemic featuring a bat coronavirus with a unique furin cleavage site that bi…

Can you point to a non-biased source that explains this in more detail?

I'm not a biologist, I don't have the slightest idea what the heck a furin cleavage site is, and so whether this is a red herring or a smoking gun.

But if you think this is such a smoking gun, can you point to somebody who explains in detail for a general audience what it means, why it's true, and how statistically unlikely it would be for it to be natural?

I just don't have anywhere near the background to know whether your comment is valid, but would like to know more.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#66

Post by whodidntante »

Klinky wrote: post #40
EMM_386 wrote: post #34

The Wuhan Institute of Virology was working on adding a unique furin cleavage site to a bat coronoavirus strain to make it bind to human ACE-2 receptors. This is factual, because the grant proposals are out there and DARPA in the US turned them down: https://theintercept.com/2021/09/23/coronavirus-research-gra... Suddenly, we have a global pandemic featuring a bat coronavirus with a unique furin cleavage site that bi…

Neither of those are definitive sources of evidence. Grant proposals that were denied and statements that the furin site could've evolved naturally or been lab manipulated, aren't really evidence that COVID-19 leaked from a lab.

definitive sources of evidence ? no statements about furin sites being evidence of a lab leak ? no

But clearly enough for quite a number of people in scientific leadership positions to state publicly that any discussion of a lab leak is a conspiracy theory and to ridicule and censor anyone who thought so.

In fact, these scientific leaders were so good, and so on top of things, that they were able to do the research and examine the evidence, and come up with these strong unequivocal conclusions only a few weeks after covid started to spread worldwide (feb 2020)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#67

Post by baumy »

metamet wrote: post #64
_-____-_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even understand why it became political. What incentive do people on the left have to deny the obvious conclusion that it came from the lab?

I think there's some confusion and rewriting of history going on here. The left wasn't denying the possibility that it leaked from the Wuhan lab. This was a theory very early on and it wasn't "denied" more that it wasn't substantiated. It became political when it was asserted by people on the right, without any actual research or investigation, that was an intentional release from China. Majority of that blame falls…

Candidly, I think that this comment is actually the one rewriting history. There absolutely, 100% was complete denial, all originating on the political left, that a leak from a lab in China was a possibility. No confusion about intentional vs accidental - total denial of the possibility in any way shape or form. Suggesting it was possible, much less plausible or even likely, was labeled racist. Attempts were made (with limited success) to suppress discussion about it, by removing the topic from social media feed recommendations and what not.

Someone else can look up sources for all of this if they want, but I don't feel the need to. It was just a couple years ago, and I remember it perfectly.

I presume you just spend your time consuming healthier discourse than I do, which probably means you make some better choices in your free time than I do, so I'm not accusing you personally of this - but the walking back of all the effort made to deny and suppress discussion about this issue and pretend it never happened feels a lot like gaslighting.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#68

Post by nickstinemates »

EGG_CREAM wrote: post #30
synetic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lab leak theorists don’t believe Covid was developed as a weapon. They believe it was an accidental leak from a lab doing normal, non-warfare virological research. The quoted phrasing makes me think that they know it was a leak but redirect the conversation by saying it wasn’t a biological weapon.

They address all of the possibilities. They aren't redirecting, they are being through. Summarizing it, the intro says, "Some agencies think that the first person to get the virus got it naturally, some others think that the first person to get it was exposed to it from the WIV. No agencies think that it was bioengineered."

What is the difference between being exposed to it from the WIV and it being bioengineered? GoF research vs. "lab leak?"

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#69

Post by MarkMarine »

splendor_spoon wrote: post #16
shusaku wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing that we’re literally talking about a major geopolitical rival’s negligence leading to the deaths of millions of people, but the right wing talking point continues to be “how can we pin this on Fauci?” Americans have been taught to hate each other more than anyone else.

Conservatives need for the lab leak theory to be correct as they were wrong about basically all other points on covid. They refused to believe in masks, lockdowns, and social distancing and paid the ultimate price at a much higher rate. [0] [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing...

conservatives want the lab leak theory to be correct? They controlled the levers of power at the time and didn’t do anything about it, didn’t get redress for the death, suffering, loss, and economic harm. I would expect they’d want the waters as muddy as possible.

Re: Declassified U.S. report on origins of Covid-19 virus [pdf]

#70

Post by brnaftr361 »

Clent wrote: post #54
pasquinelli wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i had no idea the lab leak theory was conservative. i suppose it was silly of me not to realize every opinion that a person can have has already been claimed by liberals or conservatives, such that holding that opinion means you're more liberal/less conservative, or more conservative/less liberal.

Unfortunately, American politics end up being very divisive. The right has been calling this the China virus since the beginning. Anything that can be used to show that's 'true' will result in the right's echo chamber amplifying it. As for the left, well I am not sure there is an official position other than waiting for more data. China is definitely sus but they are always like that from a western perspective so I d…

In anticipation of vindication, does the "left" not themselves then hope for the release of information which runs counter to their opponents, thus by consensus, a sword to fall on? Since without it their silly little sports team would be on the losing side. And of course in the event they're wrong they can run back to their echo chambers and self-manufacture plausible deniability. As will the right if proven wrong. In both cases either side wants to be correct — just for that little hit of "I told you so."

Of course this is all just silly bullshit. I have some inkling of hope that the truth will be made plain, but that's so implausible given current regimes and political paradigms that the only reasonable thing to do is ignore whatever is concluded, at least anytime in our lifetimes.

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