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Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

bbc.com

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Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#11

Post by mydogcanpurr »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
mydogcanpurr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it's still unethical to put others at risk due to your own incompetence. I wouldn't offer to rewire someone's home because I'm not an electrician, and their house could burn down if I do it incorrectly.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

> Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence?

You're correct that reality can be more complicated, and it depends. I can imagine a scenario, e.g. the plot of "Manchester by the Sea" which doesn't seem completely unethical. I find it hard to believe in this case that he was that incompetent. I think he took what he believed to be a calculated risk, and I'm guessing he didn't go around broadcasting that information to the other people on the tour.

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#12

Post by bananashazama »

908B64B197 wrote: post #4

"The OceanGate CEO who is trapped on a 22-foot submersible on an ill-fated voyage to see the Titanic wreck once explained how he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they weren’t “inspirational.” The CEO, Stockton Rush, added that “expertise was unnecessary” because “anybody can drive the sub” with a $30 video game controller." [0] [0] https://www.outkick.com/tr…

> Questioning the consensus and exposing the destructive nature of “woke” activism, OutKick is the antidote to the mainstream sports media that often serves an elite, left-leaning minority instead of the American sports fan. Owned by Fox Corporation, OutKick was founded by Clay Travis in 2011 and is based in Nashville.

This being the same Clay Travis who claimed, on his right-wing talk radio show, that COVID would kill “a few hundred people”.

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#13

Post by waitherd »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
mydogcanpurr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it's still unethical to put others at risk due to your own incompetence. I wouldn't offer to rewire someone's home because I'm not an electrician, and their house could burn down if I do it incorrectly.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

[dead]

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#14

Post by kayodelycaon »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
mydogcanpurr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it's still unethical to put others at risk due to your own incompetence. I wouldn't offer to rewire someone's home because I'm not an electrician, and their house could burn down if I do it incorrectly.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

If someone else clearly warns you, yes.

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#15

Post by tiedieconderoga »

rc5150 wrote: post #10
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

Can you still commit a crime if you don't know that what you're doing is against the law?

Not usually, no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

You can definitely be convicted of one, though!

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#16

Post by astrodust »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #14
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

If someone else clearly warns you, yes.

Similar story:

> Authorities say a 28-year-old Texas man was attacked and killed by an alligator “almost immediately” after being warned by a bystander not to swim in the water, replying “fuck that alligator” before jumping in.

https://www.gawker.com/fuck-that-alligator-man-killed-second...

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#17

Post by jjulius »

An excerpt from an email Stockton Rush sent out, according to the article (emphasis mine):

>I have grown tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation and new entrants from entering their small existing market. Since Guillermo and I started OceanGate we have heard the baseless cries of "you are going to kill someone" way too often. I take this as a serious personal insult.

Just... wow.

Re: Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

#18

Post by _Algernon_ »

mydogcanpurr wrote: post #11
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to your own incompetence. Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? Can you be unethical if you had no ability to know that what you do is unethical?

> Are you still unethical when you don't know about your incompetence? You're correct that reality can be more complicated, and it depends. I can imagine a scenario, e.g. the plot of "Manchester by the Sea" which doesn't seem completely unethical. I find it hard to believe in this case that he was that incompetent. I think he took what he believed to be a calculated risk, and I'm guessing he didn't go around broadcas…

They signed a waiver that mentioned the risk of "death" 3 times on the first page. I'd call that broadcasting.

Edit: I mean just read the waiver: https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/read-the-death-waiver-doomed-t...

It speaks for itself.

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