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New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

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Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#181
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even plant farming isn't without issues. Plant farming eventually strips the nutrients from the soil, and then they end up having to use lots of man made chemicals to "fix" the problem. We have to find a way to be more sustainable in our agriculture.

Absolutely. A great way to reduce the impact of plant farming is to do less of it. Something like 1/3 of farmland is used to grow crops that are fed to animals. https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture

How many more things will we have to plant to offset the meat eating?

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#182

This is an expected result if you extrapolate from an early R&D stage process to a global scale, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not worth pursuing more sustainable routes to the mass production of animal muscle. And that’s really what the underlying goal is here - don’t fall for the false dichotomy of “farmed” vs “lab-grown” - factory farms are essentially process development labs. How efficiently can you convert land…

Sligs when?

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#183

This is an expected result if you extrapolate from an early R&D stage process to a global scale, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not worth pursuing more sustainable routes to the mass production of animal muscle. And that’s really what the underlying goal is here - don’t fall for the false dichotomy of “farmed” vs “lab-grown” - factory farms are essentially process development labs. How efficiently can you convert land…

Not every meat producing shop aims for the lowest operating costs, ie in Western Europe meat from free range animals are extremely popular, we don't buy any meat (+ eggs) that isn't at least that (for kids it would be great to buy all time bio meat but that's not always available). Its not BS and lies either, where we live farm animals roam the grass fields or mountain pastures constantly, to the point where it may b…

That’s great and all, but not really practical for all meat eaters. The reason we have factory farms is because it’s significantly cheaper to generate meat with animal cruelty than low cruelty meat.

This also assumes you are sourcing all your meat. But have you ever gotten something prepackaged with meat? Or eaten out? Do you know where that meat came from?

The market incentivizes animal cruelty. The only way to really combat that is either regulations to make cruelty more expensive than cruelty free meat or a cheaper alternative to cruelty meat. Anything less, including personal choices, is peeing in the ocean to warm it up.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#184
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares The only way I can even remotely believe that is that 'agricultural' includes pastures which are useless to humans for any other purpose. Land used for plants intended for human consumption would need to be expanded along with everything bad they require. I also wonder how high would be the health cost…

> The only way I can even remotely believe that is that 'agricultural' includes pastures which are useless to humans for any other purpose. This is really interesting! I didn't know that pastures cannot support crops and/or buildings. Why are pastures so limited in their usability?

I think that it's mostly combination of location, soil and terrain shape. Letting cows graze on a plot of land isn't worth much. If you let the cows graze somewhere that's because you have no way of getting anything more from that piece of land.

Lumping pastures with high class, farming suitable land is a bit dishonest.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USDA guidelines are designed to benefit those who produce processed food. My source here is 10 years old, so it does not have up-to-date information on whatever MyPlate is pushing. But it says: "[the pyramid] no longer gives any clear recommendations whatsoever. It is fairly open to artistic interpretation." Previous food pyramids were demonstrably "perverted", such as one where a major food group component consists…

Did the typical American work and lifestyle change? I could definitely see eating more carbs back when most people worked manual labor. > a major food group component consists of sugars and fats. How many servings of sugar and fat does it say? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/USDA_Foo... This one doesn't even give servings, it says to use sparingly.

Well, see for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_pyramid_(nutrition)#Criti...

The Wikipedia copy derides and downplays some of the criticisms, but at least they admit that criticism exists.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#186

In my experience (in a different field), it is common for researchers to acknowledge the source of their funding. In particular, researchers are keen to acknowledge funding from government grants, as this is perceived to be helpful in applying for future research grants. I glanced through the paper and I could not find any mention indicating who funded that study. I'm also very sceptical of single studies that suppor…

From my experience conflict of interests and funding sources is a disclosure enforced by the journal Being a preprint, this is obviously neither peer reviewed nor vetted by a journal. In this case, I cannot deduce what journal they plan on submitting to (if they plan to at all)

Yeah, I don’t know what the solution is, but I’ve certainly noticed a trend in clickbate websites reporting on preprint studies that often don’t pass peer review after the fact.

This is a major issue in scientific reporting and research in general. It’s particularly damaging because of anchoring bias.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#188
post #18

Or we could switch to eating plants now. We already get 82% calories and 63% proteins from plants. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets We could stay on our 1% of habitable earth, lower our agricultural footprint from 48% of land to 15%, use quarter of pesticides,…

Many of the statistics quoted in your last paragraph are wrong. They are based on the premise that rewilding this land will naturally sequester carbon. That premise is completely contradicted by a study found two links down in the relevant links: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-023-00349-8 "Comparable GHG emissions from animals in wildlife and livestock-dominated savannas" > Pastoralism in Old World savannas i…

>That premise is completely contradicted by a study found two links down in the relevant links

No, it's not.

>In other words, wild animals living in a natural savanna ecosystems emit an equivalent amount of greenhouse gasses to domestic animals being grazed. Much of the land currently under agricultural use for animal agriculture would revert to savanna and grassland, with wild grazers replacing the domestic grazers.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of pastoralism - you let the animals out on the land, they eat, you bread some, then you eat some. The actual "in other words" here is that the only way to reduce the GHGs of animal agriculture is to reduce animal agriculture itself. These animals are purposefully bred to eat. All it confirms is that if you breed less animals, you produce less GHGs. The wildlife live out their whole lives, the bred animals do not.

>Don't even get me started on the degree to which these arguments ignore key issues in plant agriculture. Things like the fertilizer necessary to achieve its outputs is all fossil fuel based and carbon emitting for conventional or by products of animal agriculture for organic. We have to get to net zero - you can't reach net zero in plant agriculture any more than in animal agriculture.

Animal agriculture requires plant agriculture to exist, but the same isn't true for the reverse. It's not necessary to eat animals to get the benefits of having the animals in the system. For example, you don't have to eat honey for bees to pollinate. How do we know that? Because honeybees aren't native to the US and the native bee population got along just fine pollinating before honeybees were introduced.

Reforming and using fossil-fuel-free fertilizer is already something people are working on.

>I've seen these sort of thing again and again and again in the push to drop animal agriculture in an attempt to decarbonize our agriculture. This failure to take a systems approach leading to the wrong conclusions.

>Abandoning animal agriculture is not a silver bullet for decarbonizing our agriculture. Its advocates really need to get off their horses and start taking a systems view if we want to come up with solutions that could actually decarbonize our agriculture in a realistic way.

I think if anyone needs to start using systems thinking, it's you. The systems approach here is not to overuse one particular resource. So taking animals, a resource, out of the system continuously is not systems thinking. It is unsustainable use of a resource. You erroneously claim that the food system needs animal agriculture to exist, but it doesn't. It just needs animals to exist. There is no way to make the continuous breeding and killing of animals emit less GHGs than just not doing that.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#189
post #114

I want to eat meat from chickens and cows that had good, happy lives, eating the healthiest most natural form of their diet possible. I don't want lab grown meat, the concept is disgusting. As it is our food is too processed and industrial. Maybe we can focus on mixed farming instead https://www.earth.com/news/mixed-farming-could-increase-food...

The question to ask is: can everyone eat meat from animals that had good happy, lives? Does that scale to everyone?

Basically nothing scales to everyone.

Everyone can't have an American or European house with a garden and a car.

We don't plan for that in general.

Re: New study suggests that lab-grown meat produces up to 25 times more CO2

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, its called a benchmark and tells you how much you have to do to reach the goal you are ostensibly trying to reach. Its useful not disingenuous. Now if someone says this is the final word on lab meat, that would be disingenuous.

That is pretty much what the previous comment was implying. Any comparison outside of goal-setting (if that is the case) is most likely purposefully biased or misleading.

Thank you, that was exactly the point.
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