Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers • Hacker News Board

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#941

Post by onemiketwelve » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 12:47 PM UTC

Aerbil313 wrote: post #940

Dalewyn wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is a lesson the entire tech industry would do well to meditate on. This is a lesson everyone in the business of making things would do well to meditate on. Age and skin color, let alone sex, don't a good product make. It's whether the people involved have what it takes to make a good product. OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes.

> Age and skin color, let alone sex, don't a good product make. Is this “don’t a good product make” considered (maybe not official grammar but) “right” English grammar? I’m not a native.

It is apparently called anastrophe, but yes it is correct but not common. I figured it's a hold over from Germanic sentence structures. As far as I can think of really it's only ever used in this type of sentence "something... Does not a adjective make"

Gpt4 seems to think it has no relation to Germanic roots of the language but my gut tells me there's probably no way this ordering finds it's way to English without that history

https://chat.openai.com/share/0c9a56d5-75e3-493f-96b2-2ac3a8...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#942

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 12:56 PM UTC

pixelfarmer wrote: post #889

mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

What? Meditate on? What are you smoking? Anyone remembers the Boeing MAX 8 issues? Safety procedures / processes had been disabled on purpose for greed and people eventually died as a result. History has a truckload of examples in that direction, also because, despite better knowledge, proactively trying to prevent problems is often seen as some expense that is not needed ... until something happens and then the blam…

What are you talking about?

Virtually the entire world has taken a peek behind the curtain of these extreme sub adventures. Anyone that matters now understands they are extremely risky , and its very likely no 1 company will be able to nurture this market for years without serious engineering bonafides.

And as an additional bonus, the main culprit has been taken out of the gene pool. This is actually rare.

We can argue about the price, but this is pure learning, at every level.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#943

Post by mlb893 » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #684

methodical wrote: post #315

Besides the "what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!", "these people are dumb", and the "look how they ignored safety!" comments, I can't help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they're facts. I've seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don't even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Tit…

>vaporized I mean, that’s not what happens either.

I would assume 5700 PSI of water pressure jetting through any breach would qualify as "vaporised", on top of the structure collapsing.

5700 pounds of pressure per square inch. Ouch.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#944

Post by mattacular » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #934

mattacular wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on accounts of previous voyages it didn't sound like it had a tracking system. They relied on text communication with a ship topside for navigation (and got lost for several hours on a past voyage - while still in communication with the operators).

Host ship was doing their navigation for them, they must have had some tracking to be able to do that I think

One would think!

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#945

Post by beowulfey » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

krisoft wrote: post #655

beowulfey wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many things about this venture were not really considered. I am terrified that this guy was an aerospace engineer. It feels like he threw the book about engineering safety out the window. The big one is designing the sub to travel to 95% of the expected maximum depth, leaving a 5% margin of safety. I was taught to aim for a margin of safety of (I think it was) 50% back in the day. Operating so close to the safe li…

> The big one is designing the sub to travel to 95% of the expected maximum depth, leaving a 5% margin of safety. Sorry, but this does not follow. I believe you are confused about the fact that the Titan was designed to go down to 4,000 meters, and the Titanic lays at 3,840 meters. And because 3,840 is so close to 4,000 you believe they had no safety margin. Do I understand you well? But the thing is when you design…

Yes but you also don’t want to operate so close to the safety margin. If you need to travel to 3800m, you design a sub to safely withstand 1.5x that. And then agreed that yes it should not implode right if it were to reach that depth. At least this is how I remember learning it, which I admit was a long time ago.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#946

Post by can16358p » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #866

can16358p wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you, though I think BT game controller wasn't a bad idea for two reasons: - Battle-tested and easily replaceable, compared to a custom one. - Cables have a snapping risk in that limited physical space, Bluetooth solves it and there's no risk of EMI 4km underwater anyway. The carbonfiber structure... that's another story. Terrible.

The Logitech F710 was not a "battle-tested" controller, it's a cheap third party controller of inferior quality. The official Microsoft controllers have serious R&D behind them, but not the Logitech ones.

Logitech is a reputable brand making reliable components, not like those Chinese weird brands.

It is battle tested by being used by so many people around the world.

I don't understand what you imply by "3rd party". 3rd party in relation to what exactly in this context?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#947

Post by colechristensen » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

111111IIIIIII wrote: post #843

colechristensen wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m working on the right way to express this correctly but it seems to me pretty reliable that willingness to comment in public on any topic makes it much more likely that the commenter is demonstrably wrong / an extremist.

Maybe, but what's the likelihood that you're just demonstrably wrong / an extremist?

It happens :)

I do on occasion ramble on with unpopular opinions or say things which are probably incorrect

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#948

Post by beowulfey » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #901

kristjansson wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There ... there were screws into the structual carbon fiber??

Some people saw that they had affixed things to the inside of the craft. There is almost assuredly an inner liner that is not structural that these were attached to. Just like an airplane.

This is probably true, to be honest. I retract that part!

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#949

Post by 111111IIIIIII » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #947

111111IIIIIII wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but what's the likelihood that you're just demonstrably wrong / an extremist?

It happens :) I do on occasion ramble on with unpopular opinions or say things which are probably incorrect

In that case, maybe you're just human like the rest of us.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#950

Post by dizhn » Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:22 PM UTC

jb1991 wrote: post #888

whatscooking wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

The situation is quite often the exact opposite: young engineers often fail to see the big picture and don’t know how to find the adequate architecture or approach to solve a problem in a genuine way, while experienced engineers will have a natural, intuitive approach that works easily. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve looked at a project by some engineer in their 20s, and it is so over-engineered and compli…

Less experienced people probably start with a design that looks like it might do what they need.Then they keep tacking on things as they hit limitations. This might be the right approach but an experienced person would know when to cut their losses and start over. A desperate newcomer would double down on adding shit leading to a convoluted complex mess.