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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#771

Post by shepherdjerred »

hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

Maybe it makes sense to think of it as something similar to insurance. We pay into it (through taxes), hope we don't need it, and really appreciate it when we _do_ need it.

Even if it doesn't balance out or make sense financially, I'm much happier living in a world where we care about each other rather than one where we're weighing the value of saving a life.

I had this same thought when watching The Martian. If you're unfamiliar, an astronaut is accidentally left on Mars. The story is about how he survives and the immense measures those at NASA and the CNSA go to just to save one life. It's an inspiring thought.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#772

Post by colechristensen »

carabiner wrote: post #708
xvector wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an interview with James Cameron, he mentions[1] that he and other submersible industry experts believe that the system worked and that they did in fact have warning, as they had dropped the weights (which were found far away from the debris field) and were attempting to resurface before the implosion: [1]: "This Oceangate sub had sensors on the inside of the hull to give them a warning when it was starting to crac…

Just fucking insane. In aerospace everyone knows that when a crack starts, IT'S OVER. Crack propagation is extremely rapid after that once nucleation has occurred. Your only hope is to prevent nucleation sites in the first place. Except it's extremely hard to characterize fatigue limits without tons of testing and even for metals there is wide variation for identical parts, not even getting into composites. Which of…

> when a crack starts, IT'S OVER. Crack propagation is extremely rapid after that once nucleation has occurred

This is an exaggeration, small cracks can develop and grow very slowly over the course of years. There’s lots of types and sizes of cracks.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#773

Post by bilekas »

gmerc wrote: post #748
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than that, one report mentioned the US Navy notified the search teams that they heard an explosion Sunday night and used it to limit the search area. The US Navy has literally has experience detecting underwater explosions (see project Azorian). It's not guaranteed of course, but any loud sound near the point of contact loss seems pretty open shut. Imo, it made a more interesting story in a slow news cycle. How…

600 refugees drowned in the mediterranean and the captain of one of the non profit rescue vessels operating in the mediterranean is facing 20 years in prison. barf.

While on principle I agree. It doesn't matter.

There can be 2 problems at the same time.

Whatever people focus on shouldn't be a topic.

Edit: That seems far more callous than it was meant. You're right, people are forced to travel the sea almost daily, desperate people will do anything.

This IS different. And hits different because it was a choice, with a real discussion about "Hey, it's really possible you can die, and you already have a rich life"

The fact it's rich people should show that it's a completely different scenario.

As for media coverage. I would agree.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#775

Post by seagullriffic »

xvector wrote: post #696
js2 wrote: post #348

> OceanGate’s submersibles are the only known vessels to use real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring. With this RTM system, we can determine if the hull is compromised well before situations become life-threatening, and safely return to the surface. This innovative safety system is not currently covered by any classing agency. Given that Stockton Rush risked and lost his own life, he must have believed these words. He…

In an interview with James Cameron, he mentions[1] that he and other submersible industry experts believe that the system worked and that they did in fact have warning, as they had dropped the weights (which were found far away from the debris field) and were attempting to resurface before the implosion: [1]: "This Oceangate sub had sensors on the inside of the hull to give them a warning when it was starting to crac…

This interview with Cameron has more information than most I've seen, thanks for the link.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#776

Post by pbourke »

bilekas wrote: post #758
stjohnswarts wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and survived several dives before that to 13000ft, no?

I'm wondering this myself, they don't have any history logged of a trip before. I think this might have been the first one. In minimal fairness, at least the owner put his money where is mouth was. Sidebar : The owner/ceo did a 10 hour overall at max ~3kMeteres A lot of measure of units thrown around in this thread too.

David Pogue observed them visiting the Titanic.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/david-pogue-misinforma...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#777

Post by LanceH »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #287
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

I guess it's great practice for the coast guard / navy which they need to do anyways.

Impromptu rescue sessions like this provide tremendous training opportunities. The US Navy was going to be out there sailing around anyway.

Solving an unknown problem with whoever is available on hand at that moment. Coordinating between that ad hoc group and analyzing the results afterward is a real world activity that can't truly be simulated.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#778

Post by rovr138 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #738
az226 wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The looking glass was only rated for 4,000 feet. Implosion happened around 9,000 feet, which would suggest the glass handled over twice its rated depth.

and survived several dives before that to 13000ft, no?

So that’s added stress at pressures that it wasn’t rated for.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#779

Post by bilekas »

bilekas wrote: post #773
gmerc wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600 refugees drowned in the mediterranean and the captain of one of the non profit rescue vessels operating in the mediterranean is facing 20 years in prison. barf.

While on principle I agree. It doesn't matter. There can be 2 problems at the same time. Whatever people focus on shouldn't be a topic. Edit: That seems far more callous than it was meant. You're right, people are forced to travel the sea almost daily, desperate people will do anything. This IS different. And hits different because it was a choice, with a real discussion about "Hey, it's really possible you can die,…

Edit x2: Just incase it wasn't clear.

It's different because 'we' would never think to jump on an overflowing boat. 'We' could imagine taking an 'adventure' in a submarine.

So it relates to 'us'.

This isn't a dig or insult. But context matters.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#780

Post by bratgpttamer »

kortilla wrote: post #764
hyperthesis wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the date of lost-contact (18 June 2023), there have been 13 deaths from mass shootings in the US. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

“Mass shootings”, as in the people who were shot had mass. Redefining mass shootings to conveniently include gang violence really dilutes the term to meaninglessness.

I'm not sure what's "convenient" there (or, conversely, what's "inconvenient" about dismissing gang violence), but there has always been squabbling over MCIs.

From Wikipedia: > A mass casualty incident (often shortened to MCI) describes an incident in which emergency medical services resources, such as personnel and equipment, are overwhelmed by the number and severity of casualties.[1] For example, an incident where a two-person crew is responding to a motor vehicle collision with three severely injured people could be considered a mass casualty incident. The general public more commonly recognizes events such as building collapses, train and bus collisions, plane crashes, earthquakes and other large-scale emergencies as mass casualty incidents.

It then goes on to discuss the other type of "MCI":

> A multiple casualty incident is one in which there are multiple casualties. The key difference from a mass casualty incident is that in a multiple casualty incident the resources available are sufficient to manage the needs of the victims. The issue of resource availability is therefore critical to the understanding of these concepts. One crosses over from a multiple to a mass casualty incident when resources are exceeded and the systems are overwhelmed.

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