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GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

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Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#321

Post by uv-depression »

knjnppp wrote: post #116
giraffe_lady wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll buy this when I hear a straight man talk about the guys he's dated. A thing that I have still never once observed.

Glad it's not up to you to "buy" the words I choose! My region uses "you guys" for the you plural in English, too, and you petty speech totalitarians didn't show up until I was grown so even though I now live in a region that says y'all and even prefer it, when speaking I form sentences in my native language too quickly to catch myself every time I use my native term for you plural But you and your language policing…

Oh my god you are being so dramatic. Someone says something you disagree with about whether a term is gender-neutral and you're suddenly talking about "speech totalitarians" and authoritarians and gulags. Get a grip.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#322

Post by redeeman »

omeid2 wrote: post #163
redeeman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would also recommend you research who came up with and popularized the CoC that everyone uses, and what comments this person had about what would happen when popular projects adopt it. I wont tell you, as I dont want to be accused of putting words in anyones mouth, this will probably be downvoted, but go look it up yourself if you care. In general i'd say, it doesnt matter who brings information, only what the info…

Very likely, it is a reference to a now deleted tweet by the person who popularised the CoC: > "Some people are saying that the Contributor Covenant is a political document, and they’re right."

well theres also

"I can’t wait for the mass exodus from Linux now that it’s been infiltrated by SJWs. Hahahah "

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#323

Post by redeeman »

logicprog wrote: post #156
redeeman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would also recommend you research who came up with and popularized the CoC that everyone uses, and what comments this person had about what would happen when popular projects adopt it. I wont tell you, as I dont want to be accused of putting words in anyones mouth, this will probably be downvoted, but go look it up yourself if you care. In general i'd say, it doesnt matter who brings information, only what the info…

After a brief Google search, I think you're referring to Coraline Ada Ehmke, but I can't find anything problematic about her, what she's said, or her goals — unless you're referring to the fact that she's transgender and cares about social justice. Is that why you're being deliberately vague? Would you mind elaborating instead of vagueposting? What are your specific concerns? What is "extremely objectively poor" abou…

i couldnt possibly care that anyone is transgender or not, but i find the contributor covenant to be a ridiculous document, that feels the need to point out a whole slew of shit that you cant discriminate against. How about just say "cant discriminate" ? or perhaps "cant discriminate against anything non-technical" ? why do I need to read a long list of peoples ailments and problems in life? why does it have to be so complicated?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#324

Post by redeeman »

logicprog wrote: post #258
sensanaty wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but from what I remember they would seek out every possible opportunity in every single possible open source community they could find and propose the CoC that they wrote. 0 contributions to the projects, with the exception of demanding that people implement incredibly verbose CoC's in their projects under the guise of "protecting the minorities contributing to the projects". Most infamous instance is pro…

That is pretty invasive behavior, I won't lie. However, if [this]( https://blade.ruby-lang.org/ruby-core/72916 ) is the tenor of the "valid points" brought up against her CoC, I'm... not impressed. It's just standard conservative whining. The language you use towards other people does matter, actually, to the kind of culture and environment you build, and wanting to have guidelines around that doesn't make you "perpe…

well guess what, as everyone likes to say, "we live in a democracy", part of the rules is respecting that other people have other opinions. If you work within the system in a legal and peaceful manner, then that is fair game, and what these people are trying to do is discriminate against others, that which they claim to oppose so wholeheartedly. It truly exposes them for what they are

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#325

Post by ratmice »

godshatter wrote: post #189
jeffBM wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not something that automatically comes with a COC, they explicitly state it in theirs: "In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to participate within them."

That's a big nope from me. The scope of the CoC should not extend beyond interactions in the confines of their project otherwise you get people digging up something people said when they were 12 or making value judgements based on their public lifestyle and trying to get them removed because of it. Pretty much the opposite of "inclusive".

As a counterpoint, restricting the scope of the CoC to the confines of the project allows people to harass others directly, via DM's, email, etc with impunity. I am at least relieved by may in "violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to participate within them."

Which leaves open the interpretation of outside violations by whomever is adjudicating it so as not necessarily to apply to all instances of unwelcoming doormats which may be present on contributors homes.

As such I feel like the wording on external interactions is pretty reasonable if interpreted in good faith.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#326

Post by redeeman »

lionkor wrote: post #161
redeeman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about things they do on twitter? or if they walk with unpalatable(to some) slogans down the times square?

We don't have rules for that

so then your scope is somewhat reasonable, the infamous "contributor covenant" employed by a gazillion projects is not like that

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#327

Post by jdiff »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #140
commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

It seems you know a lot about what the silent majority wants, given they're apparently silent. What would you replace it with? And what is the stuff being debated? I thought a code of conduct (or any form of "rules") was to prevent debates, avoid ambiguity, and clearly outline what is and isn't allowed in a community. (or outside one, which I do have a problem with. One of the rules of my forums, alongside an all-enc…

> a rule saying you shouldn't take drama from other sites to ours

The inverse is also a problem, and it's the one addressed by that type of rule. Taking drama from this site to other sites. If someone has pre-existing beef with someone else in your community, it's not ok if they bring that to your site, sure. But if Joe gets on Sally's nerves on-site, it's fine if she sends him a direct email filled with all sorts of flavorful harassment over it? And it's fine cause she stepped one inch over the border before doing it? Nah, they're both problems.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#328

Post by jdiff »

userbinator wrote: post #307
foldr wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re essentially proposing to do nothing and have faith that everyone will get along and that everyone will feel comfortable contributing. It’s a nice idea, but it tends not to work in practice. Left to their own devices, people will talk about things that aren’t directly related to the project. How would you propose to stop them if not by enforcing certain conduct rules? You’re effectively just advocating for a di…

Those who try to inject politics, especially identity politics, where it doesn't belong should simply be ignored. As the saying goes, "don't feed the trolls".

People going off topic and talking about their lives in IRC isn't injecting politics, dude, it's human.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#329

Post by Dalewyn »

foldr wrote: post #210
Dalewyn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to ask you this again because you seem to have reading comprehension problems: What part of having absolutely nothing to do with the company or its business do you not understand? This is framing "violations of this code outside [spaces managed by the GCC project]" in a context more relatable to common men.

I already responded to that question here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36431254 I may have misunderstood what you meant by it, in which case it would be helpful if you could explain what you did mean.

No, we are not in agreement.

If an employee makes "transphobic comments in public outside of a work context" then upon what grounds does the employer have to terminate him for that? An employer should not be able to terminate an employee for something they do in their private time.

Likewise, GCC should not be able to ban someone for doing something not related to GCC. That GCC's code of conduct allows for that is preposterous.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#330

Post by Voultapher »

Akronymus wrote: post #47
074edc15 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sold on the idea that "violations of this code outside these spaces" is a bad thing, it depends what those violations are. I'm completely happy and have spent my career working with people who's views don't always align with my own. If I have a religious co-worker who believes I will spend eternity burning in hell for my sexuality, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. They have a right to their view, I have…

>..., it depends what those violations are. It decidedly does not. To quote Kovarex, a Factorio dev: “If Stalin had a good writeup on programming, would linking that be dangerous?” [1] I believe VERY strongly in separating the art from the artist. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_fac...

You seem to be conflating reading an idea and working together. If Stalin had some good programming idea, that idea itself isn't tainted. I wouldn't mind using a library that incorporates that idea. However I would never want to work with him together on a project. A common theme in this discussion seems to be the delusion that working together on code is some pure abstract thing without any emotions or personality involved. Even something as basic as how to name stuff is deeply emotional. And there exists the whole surrounding aspect of communication and coordination.

And in regards to the dangerous part, there is a very real danger in giving people a platform and potentially promoting them. If a known white suprematist draws beautiful pictures, I wouldn't want them at my art gallery. Their world views are so strongly incompatible with mine that I don't want to help them become more popular, even by proxy.

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