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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#641

Post by [deleted] »

psychphysic wrote: post #14
danso wrote: post #6

I wonder if U.S. agencies (e.g. the Navy) had picked up the sound of the implosion days ago, back when the Titan was said to have lost communication, and knew all this time that the Titan had likely already been destroyed. But there's no incentive for them to publicly say anything, as it would hint to their underwater surveillance capabilities. And the "rescue effort" is good practice for their crews. I watched most…

Other than awe for US military capability. What motivates this idea? Not only does it explain nothing, it requires additional explanation.

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#642

Post by cwilkes »

invalidator wrote: post #634
scotty79 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they didn't just drop it to the bottom of the ocean without people hundred times to see if it still holds. Who experiments with a crew in the age of remote control sensors and computers?

The carbon fiber hull has a limited cycle life. It's designed for a single-digits number of dives, and it becomes weaker on each cycle.

That puts a new spin on a “brittle unit test”

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#643

Post by jacquesm »

pests wrote: post #622
helios_invictus wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet) https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows; Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) max…

Wow these numbers blow my mind. I imagined much deeper but some of these seem literally just below the surface.

'just below the surface' -> already at very impressive pressures and given the complex shape of their hulls absolute marvels of engineering. 240 meters below isn't 'just below the surface', that's pretty deep. That the ocean is much deeper is a simple fact but that should not diminish your appreciation for the differences between a 'regular' submarine and a deep sea vessel. Which is also why the latter tend to be extremely simple geometric shapes for the pressure vessel because of the stresses they are subjected to. Ball shape preferred, then cylinder. Something with angles in it would fail for sure.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#644

Post by jacquesm »

tristanb wrote: post #508
helios_invictus wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet) https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows; Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) max…

The Borei Class is not diving to 950 meters (unless its sinking) :)

Neither is the Typhoon.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#645

Post by devit »

js2 wrote: post #348

> OceanGate’s submersibles are the only known vessels to use real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring. With this RTM system, we can determine if the hull is compromised well before situations become life-threatening, and safely return to the surface. This innovative safety system is not currently covered by any classing agency. Given that Stockton Rush risked and lost his own life, he must have believed these words. He…

People act based on their beliefs, and their beliefs are not necessarily related to reality; in fact, they usually aren't.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#646

Post by crygin »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #626
krisoft wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is value in living in the kind of society where you know that if you are lost at sea there will be arguably irrational levels of resources thrown into trying to find you I wouldn’t know, because i live in the kind of society where if you are lost at sea and you call for help but the call handler assumes that you have the wrong kind of passport they just tell you to call some other country and then hun…

Pretty disingenuous when those 'refugees' were simply planning on illegally entering the UK, and everyone involved knew it. >The refugee said it was his fourth attempt to cross the Channel. During the previous three attempts French police had caught them on the beach and punctured their dinghies with knives. Honestly didn't realize though refugees thought the benefits in the UK were better than France's.

And now they're dead, and every single person involved in in the execution of that process is a murderer.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#647

Post by vkou »

hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

If the resources involved would have been doing scheduled training anyways, this doesn't really cost society anything.

The better question is 'Who do we refuse to help?'

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#648

Post by mjhay »

bombcar wrote: post #610
frakkingcylons wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He does seem to be far outside the box now. Very poor taste to say this now.

Especially given that he’s almost certainly still in the box, just it’s much smaller now.

I doubt there's actually much of a box left.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#649

Post by m2fkxy »

rich_sasha wrote: post #179
SirMaster wrote: post #171

What I don't understand is, if it imploded, why didn't the boat hear the implosion? Surely that would be really loud. Louder than the 15 min audio ping that the boat is normally listening for.

I don't know. But sea water isn't a homogeneous medium as far as sound propagation is concerned. There are layers of changing salinity, temperature etc and these can effectively cut off sound propagation. Submarines (used to?) depend on such effects to avoid detection. Also, would the implosion necessarily be that loud? It would be like crushing a large tin really. Maybe blends in with background noise.

> Submarines (used to?)

exploitation of heterogenous and anisotropic ocean conditions definitely remains the crux of submarine warfare.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#650

Post by carabiner »

scotty79 wrote: post #416
ommpto wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Two months later, OceanGate faced similarly dire calls from more than three dozen people — industry leaders, deep-sea explorers and oceanographers — who warned in a letter to its chief executive, Stockton Rush, that the company’s “experimental” approach and its decision to forgo a traditional assessment could lead to potentially “catastrophic” problems with the Titanic mission." https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us…

I don't understand why they didn't just drop it to the bottom of the ocean without people hundred times to see if it still holds. Who experiments with a crew in the age of remote control sensors and computers?

This is how they test aircraft... It's very expensive and time consuming. Pilots, technicians, all staff, must be paid. You are subject to weather cancellations. It takes years. Like everyone has said, move fast and break things!
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