My ranking of every Shakespeare play • Hacker News Board

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#51

Post by sramsay » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:16 PM UTC

jsmith99 wrote: post #44

Measure for Measure is one of my favourites and I'm glad they enjoyed it so much. But it's much darker than they imply. The Duke is not necessarily 'soft hearted', more manipulative; and the ending where he informs Isabella he will marry her is not usually played as a happy ending anymore. The play has the only Shakespearean comic scenes that are still remotely funny. Angelo's struggle with temptation is also fascina…

Been teaching Shakespeare at the college level for a long time. At the end of the semester I like to ask them which play they'd cut from the syllabus next semester and which they'd insist on keeping for the next group.

Measure for Measure consistently tops the list of keepers year after year.

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#52

Post by granfalloon » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:17 PM UTC

jovial_cavalier wrote: post #34

paulsutter wrote: post #22

Not trying to start any debate here with Shakespeare fans, just intend this as a supportive word for those of us who just don’t enjoy Shakespeare - Voltaire declared Hamlet a ‘vulgar and barbarous play’ and that ‘one would take this work to be the fruit of the inspiration of a drunken savage’ - George Bernard Shaw: ’. “There is no eminent writer, not even Sir Walter Scott, whom I despise so entirely as I despise Shak…

>Tolstoy: ... "but having read one after the other, ..." Do not read Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote plays, not books. Shakespeare should be watched, either on stage or on screen. Reading a Shakespeare play is like deciding to listen to the Beatles by downloading MIDI files and playing them through software. Maybe you get the broad strokes of the song, and maybe you even like it, but you're not listening to the Beatle…

I never enjoyed Shakespeare UNTIL I started reading his plays, and now he’s one of my favorites.

The drama and stories in his work don’t do much for me, I view them more as a vehicle for his poetry (which is some of the greatest ever written). And I enjoy it more on the page than spoken by others.

I know there are at least some others out there like me! Nabokov cleverly said something along the lines of “with Shakespeare, the metaphor is the thing, not the play.”

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#53

Post by OkayPhysicist » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

I can't agree with the description of Macbeth "dropping the ball with the porter scene". It's a darkly hilarious release of the tension in the previous scene. Macbeth is losing his mind in guilt, and then suddenly you're in a comedic relief scene, with a hungover drunkard cracking jokes about whiskey dick.

His initial monologue has perhaps not aged as gracefully, but the humor in this hungover buffoon incorporating the knocking at the gate he's supposed to be tending can be funny enough in its own right.

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#54

Post by adamgordonbell » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:19 PM UTC

As a kid having to read Shakespeare what was lost on me, because of the language, was the language. Will worked hard to turn a phrase.

    "Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once."

    "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." 
    
    "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." 

    "The very substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream."

These are catchy lines, even today.

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#55

Post by paulsutter » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

bijection wrote: post #43

paulsutter wrote: post #22

Not trying to start any debate here with Shakespeare fans, just intend this as a supportive word for those of us who just don’t enjoy Shakespeare - Voltaire declared Hamlet a ‘vulgar and barbarous play’ and that ‘one would take this work to be the fruit of the inspiration of a drunken savage’ - George Bernard Shaw: ’. “There is no eminent writer, not even Sir Walter Scott, whom I despise so entirely as I despise Shak…

This Voltaire quote is misleading. He continues: “… one would imagine this piece to be the work of a drunken savage. But amidst all these vulgar irregularities, which to this day make the English drama so absurd and so barbarous, there are to be found in Hamlet, by a bizarrerie still greater, some sublime passages, worthy of the greatest genius. It seems as though nature had mingled in the brain of Shakespeare the gr…

Touché, thank you. Regardless I agree with Tolstoy in whole

George Orwell - a fan of Shakespeare - admits the following:

- "Tolstoy is right in saying that Lear is not a very good play, as a play. It is too drawn-out and has too many characters and sub-plots."

- "Shakespeare has a habit of thrusting uncalled-for general reflections into the mouths of his characters. This is a serious fault in a dramatist"

- "Of course, it is not because of the quality of his thought that Shakespeare has survived, and he might not even be remembered as a dramatist if he had not also been a poet."

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#56

Post by gjkood » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:23 PM UTC

el_nahual wrote: post #14

Anyone who likes Shakespeare--or anyone who wants to like it--should watch this marvelous BBC Series called "Playing Shakespeare": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2VnxiW3oqk&list=PLboSQWmG70... It's produced by the Royal Shakespeare company and is comprised simply of some of the greatest shakeasperean actors (Judi Dench, Ian McKellan, David Suchet, Patrick Stewart) talking about different elements of how to act shak…

OT wrt. Shakespeare, but David Suchet's portrayal of Agatha Christie's Poirot is one of my favorite shows.

What a wonderful classy portrayal of the character!

I enjoy it more with each repeated viewing.

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#57

Post by sandkoan » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #53

I can't agree with the description of Macbeth "dropping the ball with the porter scene". It's a darkly hilarious release of the tension in the previous scene. Macbeth is losing his mind in guilt, and then suddenly you're in a comedic relief scene, with a hungover drunkard cracking jokes about whiskey dick. His initial monologue has perhaps not aged as gracefully, but the humor in this hungover buffoon incorporating t…

You're absolutely right. The comedic relief scene is almost necessary to avoid us being stretched too taut after the previous. Thomas de Quincey has a great piece reflecting on the very same: http://www.shakespeare-online.com/plays/macbeth/knockingatga...

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#58

Post by ojosilva » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

jovial_cavalier wrote: post #34

paulsutter wrote: post #22

Not trying to start any debate here with Shakespeare fans, just intend this as a supportive word for those of us who just don’t enjoy Shakespeare - Voltaire declared Hamlet a ‘vulgar and barbarous play’ and that ‘one would take this work to be the fruit of the inspiration of a drunken savage’ - George Bernard Shaw: ’. “There is no eminent writer, not even Sir Walter Scott, whom I despise so entirely as I despise Shak…

>Tolstoy: ... "but having read one after the other, ..." Do not read Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote plays, not books. Shakespeare should be watched, either on stage or on screen. Reading a Shakespeare play is like deciding to listen to the Beatles by downloading MIDI files and playing them through software. Maybe you get the broad strokes of the song, and maybe you even like it, but you're not listening to the Beatle…

Well, not really. The written play is the actual Work. Shakespeare put his soul into writing every word in it. They are his instructions, a script for eternity.

It's like saying don't ever read the source, just use the app!

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#59

Post by wudangmonk » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:36 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #22

Not trying to start any debate here with Shakespeare fans, just intend this as a supportive word for those of us who just don’t enjoy Shakespeare - Voltaire declared Hamlet a ‘vulgar and barbarous play’ and that ‘one would take this work to be the fruit of the inspiration of a drunken savage’ - George Bernard Shaw: ’. “There is no eminent writer, not even Sir Walter Scott, whom I despise so entirely as I despise Shak…

Shakespeare and Tolkien are similar to me. If you ever say you did not like them, you have an army of defenders calling you names about your lack of education and literary maturity, you always get attacked for who you must be as a person. Read both, not impressed.

Re: My ranking of every Shakespeare play

#60

Post by bradleyjg » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 11:43 PM UTC

ojbyrne wrote: post #3

That was fun to read, even though I would disagree with much of the article. I generally like the comedies least, the OP likes them most, but it's nice to see people talk about Shakespeare in an article linked here. A couple of comments I would make: * "People will think I’m crazy, but yes, I’m placing Henry IV above Henry V." I doubt many people would think you're crazy, the Henry IVs are generally considered better…

He’s just wrong about Titus Andronicus. It’s far and away the worst.