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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#591

Post by mandmandam »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #426
methodical wrote: post #315

Besides the "what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!", "these people are dumb", and the "look how they ignored safety!" comments, I can't help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they're facts. I've seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don't even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Tit…

It's amazing how fast everyone goes from being covid/vaccine experts to {flavor of the week} experts to submersible experts.

[flagged]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#593

Post by karmelapple »

prox wrote: post #433
stef25 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, Guardian published information about documents describing the danger of this thing, the lack of regulations and how deep sea exploration of this kind is probably finished for many years to come. Him saying "it's obscenely safe" just sounds like a Silicon Valley CEO saying they're going to save the world by selling their users' personal data under the table. EDIT seems like I interpreted this wrong according to c…

It really makes you think about other tech CEOs, when they say something is safe, or private or something similar. Most software doesn’t implode though.

Those of us making web apps don't have the same safety critical nature as anything carrying souls. Working in aerospace gave me a great appreciation for the complexity of ensuring safety, the engineering hours poured into it, and why regulations exist.

The CEO was quoted[1] as:

> “We only have one button and that's it,” Rush said in the CBS report. “It should be like an elevator.

What an example to reference. Early elevators resulted in many deaths [2] and safety regulations and mechanisms needed to be invented to prevent them [3].

Similar regulations existed for submersibles, but he decided not to take all those lessons learned. I'm thankful building elevator operators do not have a cavalier attitude towards safety like this.

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/20/david-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elevator_accidents [3] https://blog.ansi.org/history-of-elevators/#gref

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#594

Post by themoonisachees »

krisoft wrote: post #368
helios_invictus wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet) https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows; Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) max…

> They do, but not the depths we're talking about We really don’t know what depth the noise was comming from. That being said it is vanishingly unlikely that an unrelated submarine trying to remain stealthy would be banging on their hull every half an hour.

Very true, it is a known factoid that submarines sometimes bump into each other because they can't tell that another sub is there. Doing so much noise as to be spotted from aircraft is crazy.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#595

Post by LikeAnElephant »

bunga-bunga wrote: post #455
LikeAnElephant wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely can - so long as you don't get other people killed in the process. The CEO of this company convinced customers to join him on his death march, which IMO is a worth crying about.

We don’t know the details, they could have been well aware. I’d buy a ticket in this death trap if I could afford it.

True - but I’ll choose to err on the side of being sad about the loss of life even if I don’t know all the details.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#596

Post by cogman10 »

jacquesm wrote: post #356
seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

I really couldn't care less. As far as I can see he was exactly what's wrong with people chasing money and forgetting about the possible consequences of their attitude towards other people's lives. I'm sure his relatives are grieving, but my sympathy goes to the family of the passengers first. As for the CEO's credentials: nature can't be fooled.

Agreed.

By my estimation he committed manslaughter with his recklessness. He's every bit as bad a drunk driver that kills 4 people in an accident.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#597

Post by themoonisachees »

bilekas wrote: post #532
activiation wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comms need power...

Yes indeed, but the transponder itself is a self-powered device, they are battery powered when needed and those batteries are usually no joke from the ones I've encountered, as it should be. Specific times I'm not sure. I'll link one I have worked extensively with. They are designed to be extremely fault tolerant with a lot of redundancy and fail safes. It's genuinely extremely hard to not notice it losing power. V5…

The thing uses Bluetooth for mission-critical controls, so maybe assuming that they implemented best practices is not exactly correct.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#598

Post by Turskarama »

jjulius wrote: post #546
seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

>... he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. And yet he called safety "pure waste"... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-21/titanic-t...

The thing about the Seattle tech community is that they have no idea about building submarines, so who they think is an expert on building submarines is irrelevant.

People really need to remember that tech bros aren't really smarter than most people, they're usually just more willing to take risks.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#599

Post by krisoft »

methodical wrote: post #315

Besides the "what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!", "these people are dumb", and the "look how they ignored safety!" comments, I can't help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they're facts. I've seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don't even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Tit…

> to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned

In layman terms “drowned” simply means that you died under water. It is not a sophisticated statement about the manner of anyone’s passing. People in the know understand that on a submarine you can die of hypoxia (if they mismanage the oxygen), or die of hypothermia (if they get stuck on the bottom with an intact pressure vessel, but no electricity) or die in an implosion, or burn to death in a conventional fire. In an everday conversation these all would be described as “drowned” by virtue of dying underwater even though none of them are what a coroner would report as drowning.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#600

Post by meepmorp »

timeon wrote: post #246
psychphysic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but not at 250k a head. It should be safer, but everything is done to a price point and I'm sure those on board recognised the risk of such an expedition.

There was marriage at Titanic wreck for 36k a head 20 years ago. [0] [0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1461368.stm But I still hope that this will bring some innovation - in form of stricter regulation for tourism.

36k to 250k in 20 years is some very steep inflation.
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