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Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

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Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#111

Post by screye »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #72
ChainOfFools wrote: post #27

I strongly suspect this effect is correlated with a weakness in short-term or working memory. Independent of general intelligence is the necessity for those with a weak short-term or working memory to compensate by relying on long-term, in depth understanding in order to JIT the necessary short-term structures into being on the spot, (often repeatedly as these images decay rapidly) in order to solve a problem. Wherea…

I've always felt like I have awful short term memory. I use tiling WMs so I can see information side-by-side. If I need to type something exactly, I forget the exact details almost immediately. I need to derive things to understand them, ie music theory. I'm jealous of people who can memorize and take at face value but if I'm looking at a chord, I need to know the components that create that chord, which gets frustra…

I've always told friends that I have a massive knowledge graph on disk, and very low RAM. Reaching every leaf takes traversing the hierarchy, but it allows me to make connections and remember better over the long term.

People are always blown away by my ability to recall a story perfectly or create 2 page white boarded proofs, but inability to remember my SSN or why I entered a room.

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#112

Post by cookiengineer »

ilc wrote: post #94
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always felt like I have awful short term memory. I use tiling WMs so I can see information side-by-side. If I need to type something exactly, I forget the exact details almost immediately. I need to derive things to understand them, ie music theory. I'm jealous of people who can memorize and take at face value but if I'm looking at a chord, I need to know the components that create that chord, which gets frustra…

Source: Principal Software Engineer, 25+ YOE. You are far smarter than you think. Learn to get into flow, and also figure out how to get your state back faster... Once you do, it is a super power. Simple things like leaving your editor/IDE open, create the same situation you left. I personally use music + IEMs to help me block sound and focus. -30-35 DB off the IEMs, and +70DB off my music... yeah, I don't hear anyth…

The reason I love vim and i3/kitty so much as a combination is exactly this. I have 4 monitors in the exact state I left them when I get back, with the last TODO comments I added and what the problem was (that I thought about deeply overnight).

For me the best way to get into the flow is by directly getting back to where I left. If I take time to wake up, make breakfast or anything else I usually lost my ideas already and it takes me hours to get back to them.

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#113

Post by giovannibonetti »

thorncorona wrote: post #104
giovannibonetti wrote: post #57

Related: Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman. According to Wikipedia [1]: "The book's main thesis is a differentiation between two modes of thought: "System 1" is fast, instinctive and emotional; "System 2" is slower, more deliberative, and more logical." Intelligent people might rely more on System 2 than ordinary people, which pushes latency up. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

A large portion of the effects and studies mentioned in that book have been retracted or refuted, just fyi.

Wow, good to know!

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#114

Post by anyfoo »

dvwobuq wrote: post #84
anyfoo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That point is very early. Math finally really took off for me when I realized that, no, it's not enough to understand an equation, or a set of requirements, etc., when I'm introduced to it. I have to actually memorize it. Literally with a flashcard app that I open every day. By rote memorization, it is available in my head immediately , and I can use it to reason through things, without having to derive anything. It…

I can entirely relate to this. About three weeks into my first undergraduate class on abstract algebra, it dawned on me that the instructor wasn't giving me math tests. He was giving me vocabulary tests. In that class, most of the answers to questions flow straight from the definitions. Once I broke out the flashcards and started memorizing definitions, that class became almost trivial. I used flashcards in all my cl…

Well put, and I like that analogy. You have to learn the vocabulary, and only then are you well equipped to discuss grammar and finer subtleties of the language. It goes hand in hand.

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#116

Post by bobsoap »

mordae wrote: post #86
SamPatt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was fun, I scored lower (2.1) dogmatism and higher on the test (840), which they claim supports their hypothesis. In day to day life the major difference I notice in terms of speed and intelligence personally is that I'm often slow to respond to questions. It didn't even occur to me to be self-conscious about this until eventually a friend pointed it out, but he kindly framed it as "you think before you speak" a…

I had 3.4 and similar number of points as you. The questions don't really work that well. E.g. the healthcare one doesn't work for my country where universal healthcare is a law and thus State truly has duty to provide it and anyone who believes otherwise is objectively wrong. I have also received more points for being "dogmatic" in that having strong opinion (that is different than mine of "neutral") on migration is…

Just because something is the current status quo in your country doesn't mean you can't have a different opinion. I think the question is perfectly valid no matter where you live.

The irony is, faulting the question because "that's just the way it is here" beautifully illustrates the exact premise of the experiment. I'd say that explains a 3.4 score (at least in this game).

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#117

Post by chongli »

fwungy wrote: post #52
ChainOfFools wrote: post #27

I strongly suspect this effect is correlated with a weakness in short-term or working memory. Independent of general intelligence is the necessity for those with a weak short-term or working memory to compensate by relying on long-term, in depth understanding in order to JIT the necessary short-term structures into being on the spot, (often repeatedly as these images decay rapidly) in order to solve a problem. Wherea…

My big stumble in math came when I stopped being able to self-prove everything I saw. At some point you must memorize in math.

You have to remember things in math. You don’t have to memorize by rote. I’m very close to finishing a degree in pure and computational math and I’ve never sat down to consciously memorize anything. I don’t really study much for exams either. I just work on the assignments and then show up and do my best for the exams. My grades are pretty much average but they’re not a priority for me.

For me, memorizing math means just working on problems until the theorems and definitions are like muscle memory. I know other people get by on flash cards but I can’t stand them.

Heck, I just wrote a midterm in network flow theory today and they gave us a sheet with all the theorems and definitions in the course up to this point. Needless to say, memorizing that sheet wouldn’t help you at all on the proofs. You have to actually practice writing proofs to get good at it.

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#118

Post by ChatGTP »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #72
ChainOfFools wrote: post #27

I strongly suspect this effect is correlated with a weakness in short-term or working memory. Independent of general intelligence is the necessity for those with a weak short-term or working memory to compensate by relying on long-term, in depth understanding in order to JIT the necessary short-term structures into being on the spot, (often repeatedly as these images decay rapidly) in order to solve a problem. Wherea…

I've always felt like I have awful short term memory. I use tiling WMs so I can see information side-by-side. If I need to type something exactly, I forget the exact details almost immediately. I need to derive things to understand them, ie music theory. I'm jealous of people who can memorize and take at face value but if I'm looking at a chord, I need to know the components that create that chord, which gets frustra…

Hey, do you drink alcohol ?

A few years back I accepted a challenge to take a year off drinking from a family member.

I cannot tell you how much it improved my memory.

Before that I was always losing things, frustrated I couldn’t remember the names of things etc.

After about 3 months I felt like I had doubled my memory.

I wasn’t really a heavy drinker, but I would go for a few months having 1-2 beers a day.

Anyway just curious if you drink and have tried taking a break?

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#119

Post by growingkittens »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #27

I strongly suspect this effect is correlated with a weakness in short-term or working memory. Independent of general intelligence is the necessity for those with a weak short-term or working memory to compensate by relying on long-term, in depth understanding in order to JIT the necessary short-term structures into being on the spot, (often repeatedly as these images decay rapidly) in order to solve a problem. Wherea…

I have a childhood brain injury that affects my working memory and sequencing ability, among other things. I think in pictures with a verbal commentary, although words disappear soon after I think them. My brain stores information everywhere it can fit: in emotions, music, patterns, movement, etc. Interpreting reality is fraught with error. You describe the effect very well.

I am working on a personal knowledge system to compensate. What are your ideas on this subject?

Popular PKS systems expect the user to adapt to "the system," rather than adapting to the user's particular set of needs. I consider each user to be a unique combination of common components.

Re: Intelligent people take longer to solve hard problems: study

#120

Post by bobsoap »

Verdex wrote: post #40
jawns wrote: post #15

A while back, I created an online experiment, based on a 2020 study, that identifies dogmatic thinking. https://shaungallagher.pressbin.com/blog/dogmatism.html Without giving too much away, this tracks with the 2023 study's results, in that people with higher intelligence scores are less likely to trust their System 1 gut reaction and more likely to involve their System 2 deliberate, logical processes.

Neat experiment. Although, I was able to guess a higher than average number of dots correctly, I wonder if I would feel differently had I been under the average. The explanation given at the end is interestingly to me. However, consider the following alternate: People more likely to answer honestly that they view others opinions as wrong or immoral (ie they would appear to have dogmatic thinking) are also people who…

I don't think you can infer that a person answers a 10-minute anonymous online quiz more honestly because they refuse to take a hint out of principle.

It would be a stretch to consider the hints cheating; they are an integral part of the game, they are clearly explained and carry a penalty if used.

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