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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#431
post #305

Well that's better than slowly asphyxiating or dying of hypothermia, probably didn't even know what hit them.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

Gas-filled cavities in the body instantly compress. So this means that your lungs, stomach, etc. instantly get crushed, rupturing in the process. Depending on circumference, depth, etc., the hull itself moves at speeds of ~1000+ mph towards itself, crushing everything inside in less than 100 milliseconds. Someone linked a great safety video of what happens under a pressure column (not gore)[1]. Though as some people mentioned, since carbon fiber was used here, it's more likely that the hull shattered, essentially turning it into shrapnel. I think this depends on the exact proportion of the life support gases they are using, but, due to the relation P ∝ T, the gas inside the submersible can ignite (like an engine piston essentially), turning all organic matter to ash instantly.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#432
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-humans-die-when-a-submarine-imp...

I found https://www.quora.com/When-a-submarine-exceeds-its-crush-dep... to be more descriptive

> When a submarine implodes, a variety of fairly ugly things will happen to the crew. If we assume that a pressure hull implodes at 2000 feet (~60 atmospheres), the pressure will increase from 14.7 to about 875 PSI almost instantly. In the parts of the submarine that have volumes of trapped air, it would be like being inside a diesel engine cylinder when begins its compression stroke.

> Anything flammable would burst into flames until a huge wall of water slams into the area and snuffs it out again. The impact of the water would cause significant injury to anyone unlucky enough to still be alive and there would be no time to suffer the effects of oxygen poisoning or anything else.

> As others have stated, most human tissues are fluid-filled and are for the most part, incompressible. Human lungs and sinuses would be crushed instantly and the immense shock would render them unconscious immediately. Of greater concern would be the surge of incoming seawater, bulkheads, decks, heavy equipment, motors and other random bits of equipment being slammed into the crew at high velocity.

> Essentially, the crew would be killed several times over in less than a blink of an eye.

and from another answer:

> When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second. A modern nuclear submarine’s hull radius is about 20 feet. So the time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

> A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

> The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors. When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine. The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

> Sounds gruesome but as a submariner I always wished for a quick hull-collapse death over a lengthy one like some of the crew on Kursk endured.

---

While specifics differ, it would be over very fast.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#433
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )

LOL, Guardian published information about documents describing the danger of this thing, the lack of regulations and how deep sea exploration of this kind is probably finished for many years to come. Him saying "it's obscenely safe" just sounds like a Silicon Valley CEO saying they're going to save the world by selling their users' personal data under the table. EDIT seems like I interpreted this wrong according to c…

It really makes you think about other tech CEOs, when they say something is safe, or private or something similar.

Most software doesn’t implode though.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder too that literally everyone is one country-ending catastrophic event away from being on a refugee boat

You must live on the coast. There's plenty of us in the midwestern US that could never make it to a coast before the boats were all gone.

Also going on a boat to leave the US would be very stupid.

There's a reason migrants take the Mediterranean route, instead of the Atlantic route.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#435
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )

LOL, Guardian published information about documents describing the danger of this thing, the lack of regulations and how deep sea exploration of this kind is probably finished for many years to come. Him saying "it's obscenely safe" just sounds like a Silicon Valley CEO saying they're going to save the world by selling their users' personal data under the table. EDIT seems like I interpreted this wrong according to c…

The "obscenely safe" remark was directed at "regulated" vessels, not at his own sub. He was acknowledging that he was taking risks by not conforming to regulations.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#436
post #276
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or half the east coast. The implosion[?] of the ARA San Juan was supposedly heard 6000km away by hydrophones at Ascension Island. ( https://www.ctbto.org/news-and-events/news/ctbto-hydroacoust... ) Or maybe they did and the data hasn't been processed/made public yet.

Was interested by this comment and wanted to note a few things. The Titan is significantly smaller (in terms of length ~1/10th the size although obviously displacement is the real measure)[1][2]. And the depth of the implosion is about 4x deeper[1][3]. So there are things that could definitely affect the sound signature. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_San_Juan_(S-42) [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_…

Yes, and as far as I can tell it's not even certain that what was picked up from the San Juan was an implosion. But on the other hand, the Polar Prince was sitting right on top of the Titan listening for pings, and apparently it didn't hear anything.

I'm not suggesting anything nefarious, I'm just hoping someone who understands these things better than I do comes along.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#437
post #305

Well that's better than slowly asphyxiating or dying of hypothermia, probably didn't even know what hit them.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

Randall Munroe probably said it best, "You would just stop being biology and start being physics."

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#438
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much stupidity as knowingly embarking on a dangerous adventure for the purpose of fun, basically. Someone who took the trip before said they had to sign a waver which mentioned death multiple times. It's like climbing Everest, walking to the north pole, commercial space flights, base jumping etc. The med disaster was people embarking on a dangerous "adventure" out of what they perceived as being a necessi…

This all feels like a parody to be honest, at least previous explorers were.... exploring Now people _pay_ to be carried on the Everest, pay for a ticket to space, pay for a ticket to the titanic, &c. There is nothing left so they fight for the crumbs, looking for the next dumbest idea on the list

Yeah couldn't agree more. "Into thin air" about a disaster on Everest describes very well how some, if not most, of the people in the group had never been anywhere near a mountain half as challenging as Everest.

Some even had brand new boots, which anyone with half a brain knows is a bad idea. A few did turn out to be tough bastards though, spending several days up there alone in a state of delirium and eventually making it back down on their own accord.

Guardian also mentioned a Mexican Youtuber having taken the trip down to the Titanic in that titanium coffin, just for clicks & views.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#439

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

I don’t think people should be too surprised that the news cycle doesn’t exactly reward the biggest tragedies. Not to mention the fact that it only became such a big story largely because so many people were dunking on the company/passengers. Unless you’re suggesting we should be spending more time dunking on dead refugees?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#440
post #348

> OceanGate’s submersibles are the only known vessels to use real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring. With this RTM system, we can determine if the hull is compromised well before situations become life-threatening, and safely return to the surface. This innovative safety system is not currently covered by any classing agency. Given that Stockton Rush risked and lost his own life, he must have believed these words. He…

It's an interesting question. (One of very few on this subject that are really interesting.)

Those who cause progress to happen to some extent have to have something in them that causes them to ignore conventional wisdom. Because they're swimming against the current. And if they succeed it may well pay off, both in credits and financially.

Montgolfier brothers, Lilienthal, the Wright brothers and so on, and that's just a small slice of aviation. Every one of them went against conventional wisdom and the laws of physics as they were known or suspected to be at the time.

But there is a final arbiter, and those are the real laws of nature, and it's first order derivative: materials science. And this is where it gets much more complex. To design something that can work is an accomplishment in itself, even if it works only once. That one mr. Rush can chalk up as a victory. Where he fails is to take into account the fact that safety knowledge is written in blood and that the difference between 'device safe enough to take passengers on' and 'device safe enough that I, the builder/designer will travel on it' is very, very large. And if all of the industry, including some of your own employees say that you are doing it wrong and you still persist, and risk the lives of others then you are crossing over into irresponsibility, rather than being a pioneer.

Whether or not he realized this himself seems a foregone conclusion: he likely thought this was all perfectly safe and those others were needlessly concerned but they were simply more aware of the real risks involved than he was. Fine line between 'god complex' and 'innovator'.

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