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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#191

Post by x3874 »

RIMR wrote: post #78
psychphysic wrote: post #36

RIP to these guys, yes it was a risky trip. But it was into international waters and they were AFAIC explorers. Stuff like this can not be done without risk. Hopefully future subs will have more safety features.

>Hopefully future subs will have more safety features. From an engineering standpoint, Titan didn't have any safety features at all. What any sane engineer would recommend as a last-ditch backup system Oceangate relied on as a single-point-of-failure. No phone. No beacon. Budget bluetooth controller and touchscreens. Electronics you'd expect to find in an RV. All from a CEO who flaunted his corner-cutting and apathy…

Yet, there still are Teslas with comparable issues on the road, maiming unsuspecting people.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#192

Post by flir »

SirMaster wrote: post #171

What I don't understand is, if it imploded, why didn't the boat hear the implosion? Surely that would be really loud. Louder than the 15 min audio ping that the boat is normally listening for.

Or half the east coast. The implosion[?] of the ARA San Juan was supposedly heard 6000km away by hydrophones at Ascension Island. (https://www.ctbto.org/news-and-events/news/ctbto-hydroacoust...)

Or maybe they did and the data hasn't been processed/made public yet.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#193

Post by rich_sasha »

danso wrote: post #6

I wonder if U.S. agencies (e.g. the Navy) had picked up the sound of the implosion days ago, back when the Titan was said to have lost communication, and knew all this time that the Titan had likely already been destroyed. But there's no incentive for them to publicly say anything, as it would hint to their underwater surveillance capabilities. And the "rescue effort" is good practice for their crews. I watched most…

I suppose to detect a noise is one thing, to know what it is is another. The ocean must be full of underwater volcano eruptions, tectonic activity, oil rigs banging and drilling, etc. One of the rescue boats was a commercial cable-laying vessel, presumably laying cables and making noise.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#194

Post by cdelsolar »

margalabargala wrote: post #40
fuzzbazz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the implosion have been loud enough? I mean the thing was a tiny 7x3m cylinder located 700Km from the nearest coast...

I have no idea specifically how loud it would have been. However with some probably-reasonable guesses, it looks like it actually would have been quite loud. Here's a naval study where they measured underwater sound propagation: https://www.navymarinespeciesmonitoring.us/files/7514/2780/4... They found that a 10lb block of C4 exploding produced ~210db of underwater sound. If we use that sound level as an approximatio…

my "orders of magnitude" alarm is going off here. There's no way that the implosion of a fairly small sub is going to be heard in Boston even if underwater. Something doesn't make sense here.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#195

Post by ak_111 »

SirMaster wrote: post #190
EA-3167 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It imploded right away" explains everything. "It imploded later" requires at least two failures, first of power/comms, and THEN of the structure itself. Occam's Razor

How does it explain why the support boat heard no implosion while listening for the 15 min pings? Wouldn't an implosion be really loud?

Exactly this, "imploded straightaway" doesn't explain no implosion registered AND probable banging noise heard a few days later, so it doesn't explain everything.

"Lost then imploded" explains both by adding only a small extra assumption so by occam's razor is strictly superior to imploded straightaway as far as I can see.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#196

Post by dheera »

soperj wrote: post #151
xwdv wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely better for them, but its infuriating that this CEO died thinking he was a genius for building this shitty sub with very few safety precautions.

At least he died doing it and not someone he employed.

It's also probably related to the "launch or die" ecosystem that Y Combinator, Sand Hill investors, and pretty much the entire ecosystem promotes.

When was the last time an investor handed an additional $10 million check for 0% to a startup to improve and test their safety systems before launching? Instead their usual mandate is "launch yesterday or die". Which is okay for a SaaS platform or grocery delivery app, but not a deep sea vessel.

Today's version of capitalism is every bit responsible for tragedies like this. While the CEO is directly at fault for certain things, the system is equally at fault for raising and educating a CEO (and huge numbers of post-2000s CEOs) to be like that.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#197

Post by stickfigure »

danso wrote: post #74
psychphysic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but not at 250k a head. It should be safer, but everything is done to a price point and I'm sure those on board recognised the risk of such an expedition.

I seriously doubt the victims knew how risky this trip was, even though they signed the waivers. Why would you bring along your 19-year-old son if you thought the chance of death was 1/100 or even 1/1000. The CEO, who obviously overestimated the safety of his cost-cutting design, had raised $20M in venture capital, it's not as if he had a death wish either.

The Space Shuttle had a 2 in 135 failure rate.

Challenger's disaster was the 25th shuttle flight.

Columbia's disaster was the 113th shuttle flight.

I'm pretty sure you could find large numbers of people who would happily climb on board a shuttle mission today, even knowing that history.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#198

Post by broAhmed »

jrs235 wrote: post #124

Complete speculation: They wanted to see something very very upclose through the glass. While getting in close they managed to scrap some wreckage compromising the carbon fiber body leading it to break and implode. The banging noises are some of the equipment dangling on the Titanic wreckage and blowing in underwater currents occassionally.

The last press conference today from the US Coast Guard stated that the evidence (debris spread over an area hundreds of meters away from the Titanic) is consistent with the catastrophic failure occurring somewhere in the "water column". So current evidence points to it occurring during the descent.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#199

Post by PartiallyTyped »

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

Something about tragedies, and something about statistics...

But there's also the concern of frequency, [2] occurs more frequent than [1], people generally don't care about the people at [2] because they are "unimportant", and not prominent in any way. They are background characters on the other side of the world for many, they are not well dressed, they do not perform functions with significant influence on the broader society.

Or at least so they are perceived by the general public. They are labelled illegal immigrants, or leeches, or whatever else because people in many places can't fathom being born in a third world or very poor country and doing everything in your power to make it out.

Imagine, feeling so low, that you'd give everything, your life even, for a chance, a sliver of chance, at what others are born into.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#200

Post by Gerard0 »

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

Thanks for this. I had no idea.
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