161–170 of 387 posts
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I'm from a part of the US where "guys" is used as a gender neutral collective noun. My mom and grandma would call out "guys, dinner is ready!" to the whole family to call us to the table for example. So it's definitely whiplash inducing for the same group of people preaching inclusion and tolerance, and how we need to accept regional and racial dialects in the workplace, to then turn around and implement slackbots th…
When non-native English speakers are taught English, they are taught that "Hey guys" is gender neutral. So you'll meet lots of non-native English speakers who will be completely shocked at that it's not. I have so much fun joking with some of my women friends that they're sexist because they're using "guys" instead of "folks". To me, it's one of those things where someone is always going to be awkward and say "that d…
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> Drupal, like GCC proposed rules, allow punishment of someone for something they did outside the community, and not only the guy was punished, an ex girlfriend of his was harassed by "helpful" people Oh wow. I was undecided about the helpfulness of CoC as sometimes people in the project can become hostile, unstable or passive-aggressive. But this case is very bad. Seems like CoC opens up ways for character assassina…
i would also recommend you research who came up with and popularized the CoC that everyone uses, and what comments this person had about what would happen when popular projects adopt it. I wont tell you, as I dont want to be accused of putting words in anyones mouth, this will probably be downvoted, but go look it up yourself if you care. In general i'd say, it doesnt matter who brings information, only what the info…
> "Some people are saying that the Contributor Covenant is a political document, and they’re right."
I must be missing something very obvious here. Why does my C compiler need a code of conduct?
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>What part of having absolutely nothing to do with the company or its business do you not understand? We were presumably talking about cases where people might be fired or excluded from a project for e.g. making transphobic comments in public outside of a work context. If you agree that this isn't a case where the actions have 'nothing to do with the company or its business' (because of reputational issues), then it…
Say you're a car mechanic and you work at a car shop. The car shop fires you for saying the Moon is made of cheese during a BBQ at a friend's on Saturday, because it's against the nebulous code of conduct. Now let's say you're a programmer and you like volunteering code to GCC. The project bans you because your beliefs expressed anywhere, including in the privacy of your own home, violate the nebulous code of conduct…
But I'm going to have to call slippery slope on the cheese moon thing. We're not moving towards a world where literally every thing you can possibly say will get you fired.
I see a lot of people here forgetting a real case of CoC abuse. There was this famous Drupal dev that wrote a transcript of a fetish wedding on his fetish social media profile. An enemy of his on Drupal quoted that transcript and used it as examples the Dev should be punished. Drupal, like GCC proposed rules, allow punishment of someone for something they did outside the community, and not only the guy was punished,…
I mean, of course it should. I’m not talking about the Drupal case because I don’t know the particulars, and it sounds complicated to say the least.
But imagine a very plausible case where someone fills their social media with slurs against how a particular race is dumb and lazy, then works on a software project with people of that race. It’s reasonable to expect that maybe they’re going to be a jerk to those members, ignore their suggestions, slow roll their merge requests, etc. It’s also reasonable to expect that those other members are going to seethe every time they see the jerk’s name cross their screen.
“Oh, he’s only a racist on social media” doesn’t pass muster.
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In most instances it is not the rules that are the problem, it is the people enforcing the rules that is the problem Power Corrupts, and any time you give a group of humans power over another group of humans they will abuse that power. EVERY TIME. No human can resist, and it an immutable law of psychology. Power Corrupts and will be abused. CoC's formalize this power, and result of which is inevitable
> In most instances it is not the rules that are the problem, it is the people enforcing the rules that is the problem This is the key to any group organized by the Rule of Law. Having the rules written down, in theory, means that everyone knows what the boundaries of their liberty happens to be, and they are free to behave without constantly asking for permission. That's the theory. The reality is that sometimes tha…
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Can you provide more details? I’ve been working on open source projects for about a decade now, including years of professional work, and I have never seen or heard someone chastised for using “guys” informally. This includes in communities with established, formal codes of conduct. It strikes me as something that most people wouldn’t even notice , unless the speaker was intentionally using it in a way that implies g…
I'm not sure what kind of details you're looking for?
In particular: did you witness the instigating incident, the bullying, or both? Did the bullying actually weaponize a CoC, or is it your impression that the presence of a CoC empowered the bully? Is "bullying" your characterization or someone else's? And so on.
I must be missing something very obvious here. Why does my C compiler need a code of conduct?