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GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

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Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#31

Post by Dalewyn »

074edc15 wrote: post #24
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you believe that only married male-female couples should have sex and children? Or that people with penises don't belong in womens spaces? Or whatever other currently controversial topic? It has nothing to do with GCC, nothing with code quality, nothing with your contributions to the project, you don't say that in code, in code comments, on gcc mailing lists, anywhere gcc related. But, because of the CoC ( ht…

I'm not sold on the idea that "violations of this code outside these spaces" is a bad thing, it depends what those violations are. I'm completely happy and have spent my career working with people who's views don't always align with my own. If I have a religious co-worker who believes I will spend eternity burning in hell for my sexuality, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. They have a right to their view, I have…

>I'm not sold on the idea that "violations of this code outside these spaces" is a bad thing,

Let's frame it in a more relatable context.

Your employer can fire you for violating the company code of conduct, despite your behaviour having absolutely nothing to do with the company or its business.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#32

Post by Akronymus »

Overall it seems like a pretty decent CoC. Altough, I am REALLY not a fan of this line: "In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to participate within them."

I fear that that stipulation will be used to try and kick out people for holding "bad" opinions outside of the project. Like what was tried with Elia Schito.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#33

Post by mbStavola »

commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

How do you know the silent majority aren't in favor of CoCs?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#34

Post by rurban »

not_your_vase wrote: post #2

Has there been any project which had its community change its conduct after adopting a CoC? Or any projects which had a profound impact due a CoC? I see that having CoC is getting standard with OSS projects, old and new alike. But have no idea if it actually does anything.

Most projects when adopting a CoC started their political infighting over alleged allegations exponentially, whilst the technical decision making troubled to the point of full stagnation.

conferences became cesspits.

project leaders went from knowledgable dictators to well-liked community leaders, who had no idea what they were doing, and into which direction to go forward. the yes-sayers.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#35

Post by speeder »

I see a lot of people here forgetting a real case of CoC abuse.

There was this famous Drupal dev that wrote a transcript of a fetish wedding on his fetish social media profile. An enemy of his on Drupal quoted that transcript and used it as examples the Dev should be punished.

Drupal, like GCC proposed rules, allow punishment of someone for something they did outside the community, and not only the guy was punished, an ex girlfriend of his was harassed by "helpful" people.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#36

Post by foldr »

Dalewyn wrote: post #31
074edc15 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sold on the idea that "violations of this code outside these spaces" is a bad thing, it depends what those violations are. I'm completely happy and have spent my career working with people who's views don't always align with my own. If I have a religious co-worker who believes I will spend eternity burning in hell for my sexuality, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. They have a right to their view, I have…

>I'm not sold on the idea that "violations of this code outside these spaces" is a bad thing, Let's frame it in a more relatable context. Your employer can fire you for violating the company code of conduct, despite your behaviour having absolutely nothing to do with the company or its business.

This is completely commonplace. Yes, you can be fired for doing something outside of work that would bring your employer into disrepute.

If anything this used to be much more common before the era of codes of conduct, when people were, for example, routinely fired when it was discovered that they were gay.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#37

Post by LexiMax »

mbStavola wrote: post #33
commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

How do you know the silent majority aren't in favor of CoCs?

They don’t.

I have been away from hacker news for about 2 to 3 years and quite frankly I am shocked that this place is still having this same tired argument whereas outside it seems to be an accepted fact of life that having rules surrounding the conduct of project participants is in fact a good thing.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#38

Post by commitpizza »

mbStavola wrote: post #33
commitpizza wrote: post #30

I can't wait until the silent majority stops being silent and throws out CoC and their people from projects. It is seriously a toxic thing that creates debates over stuff where there is no need for it to be a debate to begin with.

How do you know the silent majority aren't in favor of CoCs?

Well to be honest I don't. But I am guessing because it's stupid and meaningless and usually that won't prevail in the end. People may be tricked into it for a while but when they see the true power play that are in place they will quickly come to hate it.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#39

Post by mc32 »

speeder wrote: post #35

I see a lot of people here forgetting a real case of CoC abuse. There was this famous Drupal dev that wrote a transcript of a fetish wedding on his fetish social media profile. An enemy of his on Drupal quoted that transcript and used it as examples the Dev should be punished. Drupal, like GCC proposed rules, allow punishment of someone for something they did outside the community, and not only the guy was punished,…

The problem is these CoCs ceasing being guidance and become all-consuming forces unto themselves who become the reason for existence rather than the organization being the reason for existence. The whole things throws things upside down but it's due to how easy it is to manipulate politically as opposed to being productive and contributing to the organization --why do the hard work to get an apartment when you can rat out your neighbor for listening to the VoA?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#40

Post by [deleted] »

foldr wrote: post #26
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you believe that only married male-female couples should have sex and children? Or that people with penises don't belong in womens spaces? Or whatever other currently controversial topic? It has nothing to do with GCC, nothing with code quality, nothing with your contributions to the project, you don't say that in code, in code comments, on gcc mailing lists, anywhere gcc related. But, because of the CoC ( ht…

The irony here is that you're using the same kind of logic (the project can't survive if it's closed to transphobes!) that's mocked in the following comment when the shoe is on the other foot (LOL the project can't survive without trans people): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36430649 This does highlight the point that diversity is to some extent a zero sum game. You can welcome trans people to your project, or…

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