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Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

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Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#471

Post by giardini »

subsection1h wrote: post #450
legendofbrando wrote: post #326

Counter point: sure they are. Humans are highly adaptable and like other changes to information availability in the past they will adapt. This is what societal norms and cultural memes are for. “Don’t believe everything you hear” “Don’t believe what you see on TV” “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” These are all ways that the human species uses memes and cultural norms to teach ourselves how not to f…

Most humans aren't even ready for the Internet as it has existed for decades. Thirty years ago, we were discussing science papers on Usenet. I recall writing a message expressing optimism about a future in which everyone uses the Internet to consume high quality information directly from relevant specialists, rather than low quality information from nonspecialists. For example, I imagined Americans basing their votin…

Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Joe Biden were also elected President during that time.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#472

Post by ACow_Adonis »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #395
mkl wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of them was Albert Einstein: "The words of the language, as they are written or spoken, do not seem to play any role in my mechanism of thought." -- https://www.creativitypost.com/article/aping_einstein#:~:tex... Your comment seems like a non sequitur.

Wow, it’s a sourced quote too (rare for Einstein on the internet). How do you write a paper without thinking in words? I need to talk to someone who doesn’t think in words, I just can’t believe it otherwise.

I had philosophy teachers who thought similar and dismissed my claims outright to the contrary.

I call it mental-ese. To talk i often first have to translate between it and my native language (English). obviously, it's by its very nature hard to express in words exactly what mental-ese consists of, and it might arguably be impossible in the same way we cannot express general qualia using the written language.

but I've heard enough similarities from others trying to express such to be convinced there's something there. surely the phrase "I can't express my thoughts in words" is common and has meaning to you?

The analogies I've heard commonly from myself and others to describe it is that I see/feel the shape of relationship between the concepts or abstract thoughts before I then try to put it into language. just as my other senses do not require written language to first describe (my experience of tasting a strawberry is something qualitatively different experienced/impressed on the mind, not a word).

Another analogy I've used to try to convey my apparent experience to others in contrast to many people is that it appears to me that a common way of experiencing the world is to have relative primacy or weight on "things"(words) and then people have to work towards the relationships between things. whereas I feel my mind works the other way, receiving impressions of relationships between or behind things first, such that they are the primary unit, and the words/things must then be built up from these.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#473

Post by rhaway84773 »

legendofbrando wrote: post #326

Counter point: sure they are. Humans are highly adaptable and like other changes to information availability in the past they will adapt. This is what societal norms and cultural memes are for. “Don’t believe everything you hear” “Don’t believe what you see on TV” “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” These are all ways that the human species uses memes and cultural norms to teach ourselves how not to f…

> This is what societal norms and cultural memes are for. “Don’t believe everything you hear” “Don’t believe what you see on TV” “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”

All these memes tell you what not to believe. None of them provide a decent heuristic to know what to believe and where truth may lie.

This is a recipe for a paranoid, conspiracy theory riddled society.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#474

Post by rbreaves »

giardini wrote: post #471
subsection1h wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most humans aren't even ready for the Internet as it has existed for decades. Thirty years ago, we were discussing science papers on Usenet. I recall writing a message expressing optimism about a future in which everyone uses the Internet to consume high quality information directly from relevant specialists, rather than low quality information from nonspecialists. For example, I imagined Americans basing their votin…

Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Joe Biden were also elected President during that time.

So… 2-3 out of 5 wasn’t a total waste, I’m sure at least 2 or 3 of those presidents read the journals even if the voters didn’t.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#475

Post by rbreaves »

synetic wrote: post #430
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Whether I agree with their final conclusion is irrelevant, I ca…

And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Ah. The, “they did their research” and “read lots of words” ret…

But let me tell you.. that flat earther did their research!!

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#476

Post by giardini »

synetic wrote: post #407
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disinformation is the narrative constructed by crumbling authorities of mainstream media desperately trying to preserve their power. You might think like their narrative is "think critically, and consider everything critically". But the actual message is, your fellow humans are stupid, they fall for misinformation and fake sources. Ignore all alternative sources of information and most importantly, do not trust your…

I think a great many people are actually stupid and easily lead astray. There are large numbers of people who won’t vaccinate their children (not talking about Covid vaccine). Such a person is either stupid or a victim of misinformation. Humans are easily persuadable. This is particularly true with a group of people echoing who feel slighted or are angry about some perceived injustice. The mob mentality is real and i…

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Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#477

Post by [deleted] »

scrubs wrote: post #180
civilitty wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m working on a startup that’s training LLMs to be authentic so they can simulate human affection and it’s actually working really well! The key is humanity’s ability to pattern match: we’re actually pretty terrible at it. Our brains are so keen on finding patterns that they often spot them where none exist. Remember the face on Mars? It was just a pile of rocks. The same principle applies here. As long as the AI so…

You wrote: "I’m working on a startup that’s training LLMs to be authentic so they can simulate human affection and it’s actually working really well!" I got news for you buddy: I and a hell of a lot of people know the difference between eating the menu (AI) and the meal (loved ones and dear friends). My lady is from south America, multi lingual, and has a better degree from a better school than I. Seriously, how are…

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Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#478

Post by vkou »

aero-deck wrote: post #139
Havoc wrote: post #53

The comment by Yuval Noah Harari seemed insightful to me. If you argue against a bot about a political matter, not knowing it’s a bot - you always lose on a long enough timeline. ie you can never pursuade the bot but it can wear you down / eventually find an argument that works. The only winning move is not to play. So I could see this having a chilling effect on all discourse Aside from the whole skynet thing the ab…

The chilling effect may actually be a good thing, given that discourse these days is overheated. There's a weird magic trick that social media companies have played on people to convince them that the text and images consumed on their websites are socially/culturally/politically relevant. Once it becomes clear how easy it is to fake that text people will come to understand how cheap and irrelevant "opinion" has becom…

> The chilling effect may actually be a good thing, given that discourse these days is overheated.

So, we'll cement ourselves at the status quo? Or at whatever conditions that serve the powerful?

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#479

Post by giardini »

synetic wrote: post #447
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no right questions, only right answers. A question, by definition, isn't right or wrong. That's why it's a question, not an answer. The very first step to being an intelligent person is not being afraid to ask questions. The second step is trying to understand it even if you might reach the wrong result. Only if you passed those first two steps you even have the hope of answering the question correctly. And…

A child can’t prove 1+1 = 2 because a child doesn’t know enough mathematics to prove it. Doesn’t even understand the basics of mathematical logic or set theory. You know so little about what it means to prove 1+1=2 that you think proving this is easy. Your grasp on the limits of your mathematical knowledge is greatly lacking. There are no right questions, only right answers. A point that does not pertain to what I sa…

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