Maps distort how we see the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#181

Post by kadoban » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:38 AM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #81

eddythompson80 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every flat map projection distorts something, so every projection has to optimize some parameter and trade off other utility. I'm constantly amazed at how hung up people are on apparent size of countries. If size is your thing, use some other projection! That's the point of the post. The trade-offs between different projections are rarely discussed, considered or even mentioned outside very small cohorts because th…

The problem with these kind of posts is that they also ignore the existence of globes. No one should be surprised by the "size" of any country because globes already exist which are a pretty close to true representation.

Globes are a lot more rare than maps.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#182

Post by gmiller123456 » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:41 AM UTC

The claim that "when you look at the Pacific Ocean on a globe, you only see water" is incorrect.

I've seen a few attepts to make this claim appear as if it were real. Like the image in the article, it's just a perspective projection from a low altitude.

If you actually grab a globe, you'll see there is no way to cut it in half with only water on one side. If there were a way to do that, we could save a lot of money on globes by just not making that half.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#183

Post by 29athrowaway » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:48 AM UTC

Good luck using a compass and using a projection other than mercator.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#184

Post by TheBigSalad » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:50 AM UTC

nilmask wrote: post #165

thrashh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have a problem with this post and these kind of posts because they imply it was deliberately done for evil reasons. The point of any article isn't just its factual content; it's the hidden message from the way it's said. I don't know if you intended to say it the way you did when you started off with the comment about poverty in the first two sentences, but by doing so, you set the tone for the rest of your ar…

> People have a problem Why do you presuppose that others infer & arrive at the same interpretations you do? Isn't your own form of generalization from the subjective inferences made from your own individual mind, to the thoughts of others, presumptuous? I'm getting tired of the progressive tendency to read offence, bigotry, racism, sexism, transphobia, etc. into every little word & minutiae of nuance uttered by othe…

Did you read the post? I didn't think it was too subtle. Especially because it was so out of place.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#185

Post by TheBigSalad » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:52 AM UTC

gmiller123456 wrote: post #182

The claim that "when you look at the Pacific Ocean on a globe, you only see water" is incorrect. I've seen a few attepts to make this claim appear as if it were real. Like the image in the article, it's just a perspective projection from a low altitude. If you actually grab a globe, you'll see there is no way to cut it in half with only water on one side. If there were a way to do that, we could save a lot of money o…

You mostly see water.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#186

Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:59 AM UTC

TheBigSalad wrote: post #185

gmiller123456 wrote: post #182

The claim that "when you look at the Pacific Ocean on a globe, you only see water" is incorrect. I've seen a few attepts to make this claim appear as if it were real. Like the image in the article, it's just a perspective projection from a low altitude. If you actually grab a globe, you'll see there is no way to cut it in half with only water on one side. If there were a way to do that, we could save a lot of money o…

You mostly see water.

This is a very Hawaii phobic point of view

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#187

Post by bagacrap » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 1:04 AM UTC

meindnoch wrote: post #136

Yeah, it must be the Mercator projection why the global south is poor. Never mind New Zealand and Australia... Never mind that the whole post-USSR Asia is on the same level as some African countries... It must be those damn maps.

Actually the claim was that the global poor are close to the equator. Given how little motivation I have to even move when it's very hot, and how moving is required to generate wealth, and how recently A/C was invented, it's probably not totally a coincidence.

But yea Mercator isn't the problem.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#188

Post by goodbyesf » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 1:23 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #77

bluepod4 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm constantly amazed at how hung up people are on apparent size of countries. If size is your thing, use some other projection! Hmm. That’s not usually how the discourse goes. It’s never “wow, Country X is actually smaller than Country Y. That’s terrible.” It usually goes something like “wow, Country X is actually smaller than Country Y. This distorts our worldview and makes us think things we shouldn’t have thoug…

> But my thoughts about Europe definitely changed after seeing the other projection. That’s odd. Did you think land mass was somehow really important? Did you ever check out how small Britain or Spain or Portugal or Netherlands were to the size of their empire. Do you now think that Indonesia is more important because of its size? I would expect that revelations about population would be more worldview adjusting (Nig…

> That’s odd. Did you think land mass was somehow really important?

Yes. That and population. Generally, the larger and more populous countries tend to be the most powerful and influential.

> Did you ever check out how small Britain or Spain or Portugal or Netherlands were to the size of their empire.

Ever wonder why britain, spain, portugal and netherlands expanded their landmass by creating their empires? Ever wonder why britain, spain, portugal and netherlands lost their power and influence when they lost their empires and landmass?

> Do you now think that Indonesia is more important because of its size?

Yes along with other reasons - population, geographical location, etc.

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#189

Post by andsoitis » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 1:29 AM UTC

garbagecoder wrote: post #113

jgeada wrote: post #24

Every flat map projection distorts something, so every projection has to optimize some parameter and trade off other utility. I'm constantly amazed at how hung up people are on apparent size of countries. If size is your thing, use some other projection! Mercator is and remains popular because it preserves local angles and shapes, which makes it simple use this projection to navigate by rhumb lines (compass headings)…

Also 80% of the population lives in the northern hemisphere. It's not an evil scheme to cheat the 20% who live down there.

> Also 80% of the population lives in the northern hemisphere. It's not an evil scheme to cheat the 20% who live down there.

Actually 90%!

Re: Maps distort how we see the world

#190

Post by andsoitis » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

To me a more interesting thing is that we always show “north” as “up” or at the “top”.

Even recognizing that it is “natural” given our use of compasses, one would think we can be more playful showing earth with different “up” orientation.